Ep 42- Alicia Owens: Morgans & Saddlebreds | KROSS KANTER

KROSS KANTER is officially here.

In this first episode, I sit down with Alicia Owens — a multiple World and National Champion in the Morgan and Saddlebred industry — to kick off a series that goes beyond just one discipline.

This conversation is equal parts insightful and unfiltered.

We get into:

• The surprising similarities (and differences) between disciplines
• What each side of the industry doesn’t understand about the other
• The reality of amateur vs trainer relationships
• The true cost of horse showing—and what it’s actually worth
• And the one thing every horse person has… a heart horse

There are a lot of laughs, a few reality checks, and plenty of moments that will make you think, “wait… that’s exactly how I feel too.”

This isn’t just another episode.
 It’s the start of something bigger.

Welcome to KROSS KANTER — different disciplines, same obsession.

• 00:00 – Introducing KROSS KANTER
• 02:30 – Meet Alicia Owens (Morgan & Saddlebred world)
• 06:00 – “Why are our industries so similar?”
• 10:00 – Discipline differences (and confusion 😂)
• 18:00 – Amateur vs Trainer dynamics (real talk)
• 28:00 – What it actually costs to show horses
• 38:00 – Academy vs ownership debate
• 50:00 – What makes a great horse (and rider)
• 1:05:00 – The reality of horse show culture
• 1:20:00 – “Heart horses” and emotional connection
• 1:35:00 – Funny horse show stories + chaos moments
• 1:50:00 – Final thoughts + what KROSS KANTER will be

Transcript

Copy

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Yeah it's yes are we cheersing we are definitely cheers cheers very excited cheers Alicia welcome to canter culture I'm very excited big fan well the cool thing for me about this is this was your idea so Kyle my husband was over at your place and you said she should do like a cross canter and do other discipline yes Kyle came home and said I was like that it is brilliant yes yes so here we are you're the honorary first person I'm so excited and so excited by listen to your podcast all the time sometimes multiple times um it's interesting to me because there are so many things about your industry that are so similar and what we do I and I'm Saddle Seat Morgan's and Saddam Red and you're not no so I I think you've dabbled in it but they are very different industries so listening to some of the interviews and I'm like it's shockingly similar I'm like so now I have some questions yes so I think I think you're supposed to be interviewing me but I have some questions we can do both we can do all of the things so like you kind of already said but you're a multiple world national champion in the Morgans yes and do saddlebreds also and saddlebreds okay so both of them heavier in the Morgans but success across both breeds okay and that's been like your whole life yeah I mean my whole adult life as a kid I showed for H. Like there was no there was no money so it was you know like horses but it was you know a one strand of electric fence in the backyard and whatever was on sale that week is what we had. But showed 4-H and my mom was really into that so did that all growing up and then I was like the only way to have a nice horse is if I'm good enough that somebody else pays me to work it. So that was kind of the goal. I was like I'm gonna get good enough that somebody else spots this bill and then I get showed their nice horse which is exactly how it worked out. That's really smart though. That's true. So this is Alicia Owens. I didn't even do a proper introduction getting better about it. I'm getting better you're improving in the first like 10 20 seconds. You're improving so Alicia Owens she actually lives really close to me. She's like a couple miles away and it's neat like in our little area we have so many different disciplines. This is horse heavy and like a a lot of good horse trainers here. Yeah for sure so I think it's neat that I I mean I've gotten to learn a little bit about your industry because we have similar friends and you know with my husband coming to your barn and so on and so forth. But so before we get into like the meat of this what is something in your industry that us stockbreed people just we just don't understand. I I think it works both ways because I I think it works both ways. Like I don't understand how quiet the horses are sometimes and you know I'll watch a and not yours because you your guests are really interesting but there are a couple other ones I've tried to get into that it's oh the horse is just so wild I watched the video and I'm like no it's walking fast I guess like I so that part's interesting to me. Like there I think which I guess maybe makes it really accessible is the the horses aren't always terribly intimidating. But I know you're a very accomplished rider and I can watch things that you're doing. I'm like okay now that's a very high level high skill set rider and I'll watch somebody else who's just having a terrible day because it was windy and their horse was upset. I'm like well we kind of want that. Like so I'm like that's that's that's interesting. It's like it's very different how I want my horse to respond in a horse show versus how I think some of the stock horses want their is that the right stock horse is that okay yeah we're stock breeds. Yeah between like the quarter horses the paints and the appalous we consider stock breeds. Aside from knowing definitionally how the breeds are different, I don't I've got so many questions about lingo it's like I'm like what is a stock horse and what's a Western pleasure horse and how is that different than an all-around horse and why does top line mean one thing to you and a completely different thing to me. Oh I'm sure oh I'm sure so and I know from my brief stint in the saddle seat world that what I think is cool. So from doing both what I think is really neat is I feel like although your horses might be like hotter so to speak than ours, I almost feel like they're like more well behaved though. Okay. You know so because I feel like when you get on them, I don't even though they're hot, like they're gonna trot in place or or you know kind of like sure but they don't go anywhere. They don't misbehave. No I don't think they're I think our margin of acceptable behavior is pretty broad. Yeah like as long as you're mostly mostly trying to listen like the rest of it's just expressionist, you know that's fine. I also haven't ever I don't think I've really been to a high level stock reader Western pleasure pleasure horse show to know like what is a what is what does yours do when it's bad. I know mine does when it's bad. What is yours do they butt? Do they spin? Like what's their move? Yeah all of it all of it I think a lot of ours launch because that's terrible like a lip zonner but like oh that's terrible and you don't have the neck in front of you to stop it. So do not terrible but I feel like they do that because so we ask ours to do a lot of like it's kind of dressage. Very but so you know we want like a really rounded top line not that we really don't want that top line is referring to the bridal literally from the tip of their the top of their tail so same it's all the way down to their pole. We say top line but we mean like confirmation. Correct and you want that level yeah we do round we want it like round but level yeah and a lot of our I mean it's a conf I'm just like your industry I'm sure but like confirmationally some it's easier some of them their necks are set on their bodies lower so like even Zeus his neck is that's a whole nother story his neck is his like one problem. But his neck is actually set on his body a little lower. Okay. Um so I think Zeus is beautiful. I'm obsessed we should we'll tell him later I love that horse not as much as Dell's pony but I do love Zeus. Oh he is he's just so cool. But he so what we ask them to do is kind of like really be very round in everything they do. And like we put them in that position and then we're like okay now stay and we keep them there with our feet. So we hold them with our spurs and like as the spur stays on that's how they know to stay there. So if your leg comes off that's typically a whoa or um okay like so our leg is directing the stay. If that's interesting yeah yeah I hear what you're saying it makes no sense to me but I hear what you're I mean think about pulling yours into into your body like that's what we we we want to kind of almost feel so they launch because you're always kind of keeping the top on yeah and once in a while just that well that's hard like for a lot of them to engage from behind and then kind of lift in their shoulders right and but keep your face we just spur is the stopping point of the energy not your bridle for the most part yes when we're teaching them we kind of will like hold the spur and then we'll like pull with our hands and be like come here come here this is the spot I'm gonna let you go uh you didn't stay come back so you know we'll we'll hold them with our feet and like it's like a light typically you know unless you need more hind end then we'll like dig our outside spur and like if you see you know any of the controversial Western pleasure videos on TikTok or so on and so forth. But if you see a trainer oh gosh but if you see them like really rolling a spur that's typically to engage more hind end. So that's are you guys allowed to have rowled spurs? Okay. Yep yep we do you know actually I don't I don't know if we have rules I'm sure we do but I don't know. Yeah but if you're not as far into it as you are if you're not aware of them then they must not be a big deal. That's not true. I love Olivia Do you know what I and I said this I think I said this on my vet podcast but this is true as a like do it yourselfer I went to a horse show and it was like a long one like like two weeks and like halfway through I was giving Zeus pute as like his show meds you know and I was getting sick of the tube was like driving me nuts and I didn't have like so I was like that's it I'm switching to Bandamine and some as someone well you're not USCF so I don't know what your rules are rules we follow their rules but I didn't I just figured they're both like the same and I wasn't gonna doubt that would be logical so first lesson in horse showing doesn't make sense then it's definitely against the rules. Somebody saw me doing that we were like Ellie no no no and I'm like what I had no idea so that was like a big learning thing for me. But yeah anyways so like that's okay the launching is like a big thing because we we like trap them to like put them in that spot okay and then to learn it. Yeah and then once they learn that spot then that there's the reliefs and the drape drains and all of that. That's very cool. Yeah all right yeah yeah ours ours launch but we it's always like vertical first and but you can hold on to the neck you have a lot of neck there it's not like a launch and then just you see you're being a lawn dart. So now you got the neck to stop you. Yeah that's interesting. Okay. So with that being said if we dropped you into an AQHA class, what class are you showing in? I don't know what the classes are. I know I don't like running in dirt so I'm out on showmanship. Okay I know that I don't want that valid I like the class you put up a video of you and Seuss and it is a serious pattern with like lead changes. It looks like equitation but I don't think it was equitation was I in a Western saddle you were okay oh you know what no I've seen you do this in a hunt saddle too that's expensive one at a time it looks like equitation but I can't it's it's a complex pattern. Yeah and there are flying lead changes and like sitting trot to posting trot and it's really really precise and we as adult riders we don't have that in the Morgans and the saddle I mean I shouldn't say that the class is offered however it is and as a professional you can't do it. I cannot no no no no no it's and the the kids are very serious about equitation in the Morgan's saddlebreds the adult riders it's usually eck riders that have moved out of it or like an adult is like looking for another class to do like nobody's going out and buying an adult echo not nobody very few people are going out and buying an adult eck horse so that's that is very different. But you guys have a lot more divisions that you take really seriously like we've got like four that we take seriously and then there's like this is also something you can do it your horses are really specialized it seems to each specific division which I don't really know what an all-around horse is. So the all-around horses basically like for Zeus he does Western horsemanship western riding we don't do the trail class the trail has like poles on the ground and stuff and wait we have to husband just throw backwards throw backwards if I guess this is us now we can just rip for the evening he'll get me later he'll come pick you back up but so Zeus does it's like a horse that does multiple classes not just like a high point like how do you win this? Yeah high point okay okay so I do the amateur all-around division so I do showmanship horsemanship western riding equitation even though I'm saying I would like to retire from that class. You're really good at it. I mean I think I don't know what I'm looking at but you do all the stuff you're supposed to do on purpose is Steve. He's awful to ride in that class because he's bouncy he's awful I've heard you say this he's very bouncy it's the wor it's it's not fun. Like it's really no and he doesn't and I don't think he likes it. Like I really don't like we've that's the only class that he and I struggle together. So I'm like why are we even like you know I for me I'll have like the best go ever I'll come out and they're like eight and I'm like yeah I know it's fine. Like I just I don't want to do that. We did our best. Yeah that was it like that's it that's all we can do. And what else do we Zeus did Hunter under saddle back in the day he doesn't anymore but so like it's the most classes you can do one rider one horse combination. Okay. And how many classes will you do in a weekend?

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Uh okay so showmanship horsemanship western lining five probably like around five five in one weekend? Yeah that's a lot it is a lot it's exhausting and now taking two horses I've been taking two that's a lot I need an assistant trainer.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

I'm like can I can someone clean the stall like while I'm doing it I'm like I don't have time for this it's really hard because you're getting your own horse ready and stuff too that's really hard actually. Yeah I I you know what and that's so I've always been a do it yourselfer. Yep always and then I had like a brief stint where I put my horse in training and tried it wasn't for me. I'm so neurotic that like I have to do my weird shit in the morning. Like you're probably a nightmare customer I'm probably a nightmare good amateur owner I probably am they're probably like just better do a weird shit talk to her for a little bit like okay so and I ride with his name's Colton Lasouza and he just moved to Pennsylvania and I'm so excited about that. Nice because he was in Connecticut and it was way too far. But I think this Colton Colton did he change it like a celebrity like it's so beautiful. He was born Colton too is destined to be a cowboy Lasse like that's a that's a cowboy celebrity name. It is all right well I gotta meet him now Colton do you hear this? You're like a cowboy celebrity name it was like you reach a certain level you're like I gotta be cool I gotta change my name yeah no no he's shooter like right oh yeah I don't write like super cowboy names no it's so he's so cool and he's so good but I think that they're always like do you need help and I'm like no no one touch anything no one no let me do my weird stuff. Even when we were at the Congress this year before the Western riding I had we knew I had a good chance to do well in that class and it's basically where you go in and you change leads a lot and you get judged on your horse is good at that he's so good at that western riding is not equitation. No there's that might be what I actually saw you doing. Okay. There were a lot of lead changes and on like a straight line somewhere like a serpentine and somewhere a straight line but the straight line changes are beautiful. Thank you. He and he's so fun at it and he like he tries so hard at that class but at the Congress Colton's like the morning of you know he's like okay what's the plan? What do you want to do? And I was like nothing. And he's like what like do you want me to ride him? Do you want to go have somebody lunge him for you? And I was like no I'll just I might just like do a quick ride and then like I think we're good. I gave him such anxiety because he's like I just feel like you're not ready. Like I'm we are not doing we are not stressed enough we're not doing enough we need to talk about the plan 14 times and then change it 13 times yeah yeah that's so that's more horse trainery mindset though you know and then there's me I'm like ah cool and we go up he's like are you sure I'm like yeah I'm like he's my buddy like if we weren't ready literally a month ago your horse I do I do but that's I feel like that's how I have to do it. Yeah and I know I'm lucky that I can because most can't but you think most can't like is that a saying can't why can't work like just like life okay but you work yeah yeah I have the best support system in the world. Okay like I really do. Like my mom is is it like the facility like give me the Yeah like I think a lot of people and I'm sure it's like this in your industry but people have their horse in training with a trainer they go ride once a week you know like that's and that's that's it that's exclusively what I do. Every single person I have if if they come once a week if they come once a week I have either people that send their horses for training I've got customers I've never met. Like I've talked to them on the phone I've never met them they just have the horse. I just have the horse I've never met them maybe never will meet them. We have a nice phone relationship and that's it. And then the amateurs if they're local I'll see them once a week but a lot of my people are from out of town so they'll either fly in or drive in once a month. Yeah but I don't I've got one gale that has horses at home that also will occasionally have a horse in training with me. And she's a completely different breed of amateur than anybody else. She's difficult because she knows what she's doing. So she asks a lot of questions but they're the right ones and that's interesting to me I thought what the way you did this was more normalized I guess in the quarter horses so you're an outlier then this is not the way most people do this. No I did not know that I thought you were normal. No I'm an anomaly that's I love it. No I I love it. I I and you know I I again I think it's I have an indoor I have you know the ability to to do this I think growing up my mom was always like don't stop learning. Your mom's really into it though ish yeah yeah definitely just a huge supporter into it because you're into it I don't know you know she had horses when she was a kid but she never showed she has zero interest in showing and actually like we'll be at a horse show and I'm not doing well and she's like we need to leave like she's just like the competition thing is not for her and I'm like why I'm not I gotta prove something here yet I gotta like finish what has started you know you can just like leave she's like no she's like no this isn't worth it's not your day let's go yes yes but she's always like keep learning go learn from other people like you know I think the fact that she she would take me to like random clinics like we would go to like barrel racing clinics or like eventing clinics and just learn from anyone do you think that makes you a a better customer or a worse customer I'll ask you probably yeah he's probably like worse and I think you know I over the years I think I've gotten good about taking instruction and you know because sometimes I'm like yeah but that's not how my horse that's not how I do it with my horse. Right. You know right because I have these weird amateur buttons that I put on him. Yep and then someone else gets on and they're like what the no Allie like I'm like well if you lift your left you know your right side and your left rib and then you like hold your breath and tap three times. Kiss price wink once he might take his left lead. It's weird stuff. So I've I've gotten better about like taking those you know that direction and you know oh we just had another visitor. Oh this one you do yes you do oh my gosh you've got your winter coat on too oh I know everybody very cute dogs but I I just yeah I'm definitely different because I feel like most people have their horses in training and ride once or twice a week. Yeah I was way skewed on that. I thought my perception was that everybody has a quarter horse at home. No and if you have one that's pretty enough then you go to a horse show and sometimes then you get to work with a trainer. Like I didn't it sounds like your industry is modeled a lot more closely to ours than I realized. I think so and I it it was a little bit of a challenge to find somebody to help me also I would I would not want to do that. I I'm glad that you have somebody that I can see it's if that's how the normal setup is somebody who wants to drive in drive out kind of deal that's really hard. Yeah and you know honestly it's not really fair to the other clients in the barn either right so I know like when I went to Colton they you had to think about it. You know and I was like and I was like I understand and typically what they do and I've anybody else who's helped me, I get charged a little more because I don't pay training and feels fair to me. And yeah I'm always like what you do what you got to do you know like I don't and I don't want anybody in the barn to think I get more attention than them or and that's why like I do try and do all this stuff on my own so that I you know a couple times Colton would be like you're paying for this like let us do it like let us clean the stall or let us lunge him for you. And I'm like yeah but I don't want anyone to think that I'm I'm so upset when my customers want to clean their stalls I'm just like is it not clean enough it's not good enough we'd be happy to do we did it yeah we did we did it I promise we did it your horse is messy. But you know it's some customers really like that interaction and I am odd in the industry because like I said trainers were like now that's not how this works like you have to be all in or you know and then I mean I don't blame them. They don't want to ride my horse which is fine. I don't I more do it for like the lessons and like instruction and but you don't want to do that on a lesson horse necessarily right okay right and is that be explain that. So like I well like I wouldn't have like I don't expect a trainer to ride my horse like I don't if they want to that's fine but I I don't expect that out of this if anything it's it's an eye at the horse shows. Like that's what I need. I need somebody to warm me up like our patterns are oh that makes sense yeah like that makes total sense because otherwise I'm alone that makes total sense to me and I can't yeah I literally can't nobody should go to the horse show alone. No that's a disaster. No I've tried it I did that a couple weeks ago was that's a great that's a disaster no no anybody yeah no you I'm a professional and I've got my people at a horse show where I'm like especially like if I've got one that it's bad to hook but I'm like when we're driving it and we have to hook it to the cart especially your young horses sometimes that can be it either goes perfectly or a disaster like there's no in-between either you get that done right on the first shot or your two year old's now half hooked and running. So which doesn't happen often thank goodness but when it does it's always very dramatic and fun scene. So you want to have your people around you that you know are capable they know how to do that side I get that. And you know I think even professionals we have a group of people that were like I'm gonna get to the horse show and ask Wit and Glenn and these are the people that are going to help me get this into the ring. So yeah I don't I don't think anybody should go to a horse show by themselves. The taking your horse for lessons is interesting. Yeah so well so I could I like Colton now that he's close like I could go haul in for lessons and stuff like that but I mean I wish we could do it more often but I don't okay I wish if anything I send him videos okay like have my mom video me. Do you pay for that? No but I probably should be I'm just curious. Like I'm but like I should be Colton no but you're welcome but okay so if you just text back yeah that looks good. I'm not paying no fair fair thumbs up yeah fair okay all right yeah I need These three sentences. Yeah, okay. If I get like a full review, I'll pay. Or I'll go buy him dinner, like a nice dinner or something. That works too. That's fine. Yep, that's fine. Oh my gosh, I'm all about bartering. I like a barter. I'm all about like it doesn't even have to be fair. I like the negotiation of it. Right. Like I'm going home with something cool. Yeah, you know? I like a barter. Yes. Okay, wait. I want to do something fun really quick. Okay. So I didn't tell I didn't prep you for this one. I'm really good off the cup. I need to do something fun. If not, I'll just have you edit it later.

unknown 22:29

Fair.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

So I was listening to Caller Daddy and somebody said to me a little while ago that I'm like her, like the horse. And I was like, oh, this is so cool. And I'm like, well, I need to research her and see what she does. And I'm all in. So she does this. It's the comparison game. Yep. Okay. So I'm just gonna say things and you just have to like fire off. All right. Okay. Morgan's or saddlebreds.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Morgans. Okay. Three-gated or five-gated. Three-gated. Oh, okay. Pleasure horse or performance horse. Performance. Ready? Ready for this one? Amateurs or youth kids? Amateurs.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Amateurs. All day, every day. Mares, geldings, or studs. Not geldings. Not geldings. I like mares. I like studs. I like them both for very different reasons, but I like them both. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

A maid horse or starting from scratch? Starting from scratch. Let's see. Client goals or your own standards. Are they on a mirror yelling?

SPEAKER_02 23:43

Probably by your own standards. Okay. I like that. Well, let's let's talk about that one actually for a minute. So let's talk about like how you how do you like okay, say you're you have a you're gonna start a horse from scratch, right? Somebody like buys a horse and they're like, you're like, I think this is the one, right? That's my preference. You like that. File. Okay, walk me through your process. So, like, say you're walking into the barn and you are like, I just want to ride at Scotfield, find me a horse, kind of thing. I need to know your timeline. I need to have a reasonable understanding of your ability as a rider. The the timeline is the tricky part. Like the there's a trade-off, you're gonna pay this much and now it's ready fast, or you're gonna pay this much, and it's probably gonna take longer and more risk, but you could potentially have a much better horse for a lot less money. So I think the timeline is probably the most important part in making sure the customer understands all the things that can go wrong for the very small chance that everything goes right, but chance that everything goes right, then you've got a superstar. So yeah, so I have to have an understanding of what it is. Is this a relationship journey for you, or is this a I want to win stuff journey for you? And I've had both kinds of customers, and I know very specifically which one I prefer and I work better for. So yeah, I think it you have to be able to articulate the goal. And then if if you can do that, I can tell you if I think it's doable or not. And if it is doable, what your time commitment needs to be, what financial commitment you need to put in. You have to go first, but if you can define it, I can tell you how I can make that happen for you, if I can make it happen for you. Yeah, I love that. So, what do you prefer? Like somebody that wants a relationship or somebody that wants to go like hit it hard. I like the relationship owner. Oh, okay. Um I didn't expect I thought you were gonna say the opposite, honestly. I was very fortunate to have a couple of owners that were very goal-oriented. And I had one owner in in particular, great owner, by the way, and great customer, paid his bills, was minimally involved in the process. He let me teach his kid, and the kid was a machine. I could tell her, this is the plan, you're gonna go through the gate, you're gonna trot to that spot, and then you're gonna turn left, you're gonna bump twice on your snaffle in that corner. And I would give her the plan and she would execute it. I had a joystick on that kid, really talented rider. And she was very much about the relationship, but her dad was like, This is how much it costs, and this is what we want to win. And which was great, especially at that point in my career, was like, I kind of just want to win all this stuff. So, like, let's go. And they went, there was a class they specifically wanted to win, and we went out and bought the horse that had won that class, that world championship, two years in a row prior to us having it with two different riders. I thought this is awesome. I just went and bought the best kids' horse in the country. This is gonna be so fun. Yeah. And it was a nightmare because every time we went through the gates, it felt like win or lose and life or death. Like there was no, you'd win and you felt relief. And I really thought that's what I wanted. And then we did. We ended up winning the whole thing. The kid won. I was so happy for her. She executed the plan perfectly. It was great. We sold the horse for more money than we bought him for. It all on paper went exactly according to plan.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:05

And that kid won. And it should have been a moment of like professional satisfaction. And I just was so relieved. And I was like, you know what? I just don't think that's it for me. Like, I don't, I just don't think that's it. I don't want to work that hard and win something and just be like, you know, I want to go back and like celebrate and like we did this together. And we did, but it didn't feel the way I thought it was gonna feel. Now, for me personally, I feel very differently about that. Like when it's a goal I've set for myself and something I want to do with a horse, especially with a horse that I've made, that feels completely different. But I think I'm a journey person with a horse, very much so. So I think because that's how I relate to a horse, I like my customers that relate that way too, where it's like, well, we might have been fourth, but that actually was the best I've ever ridden. That feels great to me. So um, and now I'm at a place professionally where I can have those kinds of customers. Like I, you know, I still want to win a lot of stuff, and I hope we do continue to win a lot of things, but we've won enough at this point that I'm like, yeah, but the class is five minutes and it's two classes a show, maybe five classes a year. The rest of the time, this is your horse. And do you like to brush him? Like, do you like to brush him? And does he stand good to get on? Or are you like scared every time that he's gonna take off and rip a bridle out? You know, like I I want to like the horse, and that's so important to me personally that when I have an owner that's also like that. I'm like, yeah, we can hang out at summer camp together. But that is cool. So, like you're a horse girl. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I I don't know. You are too. You're the same way. You like to win. I do. And you're grumpy when you don't. Oh, yeah. But it's super competitive. But if you got to the horse show and your horse didn't feel good, that would be devastating to you. And that matters because there are a lot of people who are like, well, it's too bad. Today's Saturday and it's the day, so do whatever you gotta do. We gotta go horse show. Yeah. That's not for me. No, me either. And I I think I've grown into that though, because as like a I don't know, maybe like 16, 17, 18, 19 year old, I was like, Yeah, do it now. Right, you know, and I was angry and like I just wanted everything perfect all the time. And now I'm more like, well, no, if it's not perfect, like we're not showing. Because like Do you think that's that's age or experience, or that you really have a horse you like now? Put both. Okay. And I think just maturity as like a rider. Yeah. And you know, live with them, which I think makes a really big difference. Yeah, uh, it's disgusting. Like the weird shit that I know about these horses. I'm telling you, like can't relate. I even like I know how much like shit he'll lay in tonight, you know. And then if he doesn't, I'm like, you didn't lay down last night. Yeah, you know, I I know weird. It's like baby the man. The miss that's it like I get and and that's actually back to the like growing as an equestrian. I remember I used to get like so mad when my horses would spook and stuff, like it would like piss me off. Now I'm like, meh. I still don't love that. I still don't I still don't love it, but I do think when you live with them, it is a very different experience than yeah. I like I've never been an amateur that just like came and rode once a week. True. So I don't know what that relationship is like. Yeah, I can only look at it from the trainer side of I live with them, but you do it's different when you live with them. Yeah, like you know everything about them. And because of that, I can tell your horse is gonna have a bad day before you know your horse is gonna have a bad day. So, how would you like communicate? Like, would oh would you like tell somebody that I don't know because the if I tell the owners that the horse is gonna have a bad day, then now they're sure they're gonna have a bad day too. And I'm like, okay, your horse is a little off today, or it's not like thinking quite right, or you know, it's windy, God forbid. So every day, yeah, it's windy. Every day, why is it like that's in Pennsylvania? It's so windy. But if I tell them that, so usually I position it as like, oh, it's really windy. So I think so-and-so is gonna be really fresh today. So we're gonna test your skills on speed management. Like, can you manage your speed through the corner when you know that gutter's gonna rattle? And I try to position it that way, like it's a challenge, as opposed to like your horse is gonna be a total turd, and I hope we all get through it together. Yeah. So yeah, it's just a lot of like getting the rider to think about it the way that's most helpful to the horse. True. And like they're just coming to ride for like their once a week, so it needs to be somewhat pedactive. Yeah. So especially if they're riding once a week or less, I look at it as they're paying to go on vacation with their horse. Like, that's how I like I want their horse to be their best beach buddy. Like, this is a fun thing that we do together, and they're driving or flying in, and they want to come to the barn and they want to tell me about their week and how things are, and then their horse should just be very happy to see them. So I want that relationship to be really positive. So I spend all week or month or whatever the timeline is trying to make sure that on Saturday at 11 o'clock, so-and-so is his very best buddy to be good for his owner so that they, whether it's an a genuine connection or not, they enjoy their time together. True. That makes sense. And that's nice. That's a nice way to look at it. Like, because it is a lot of a I mean, I don't go on vacation because horse shows are my vacation. Yeah. But, you know, and I think a lot of people are like that. Yeah. So that that's cool that you, as a horse trainer, you you understand that. Very much. That's I like that. I hope your customers know that. They understand. I've got really good customers. You're lucky. Really, really good customers. I'm very fortunate. It's been kind of a long ways to get there. I decided somewhere between like five and seven years ago that I was like, I don't care if you have the nicest horse. I care that you like your horse a lot. And I I want to work for people who really like their horses. And I don't care if you've got money or you don't have money, I can buy you a nice horse. I can't make you a nice person. So hot take. I just want to work for nice people. And as a result, I have a barn full of the nicest people. Like they're just wonderful. They're just wonderful. I don't know how you guys do it. I don't. Like, obviously, I'm a business owner, but not in the same capacity. So, and we talk about this so much, and I'm sure it's across all industries, but that, you know, like the horse industry, as far as clients paying trainers, trainers providing a service, it's a really interesting dynamic. Super complicated dynamic. Right. Where I know there are some people that are like, I own you because I pay you. So you do what I want, right? Right. But you're like, hold on, I'm providing you with hopes and dreams. Right. Like, we gotta work together. Yeah, that's a perspective thing. And I think if the owner has a different perspective, and some trainers are great at that. Like they can really manage that kind of a customer. I'm not one of them. So what what is like the most if you're a Western pleasure is stock horse, help me understand the difference between that. What's the are they the same thing? No. Okay, what's a Western pleasure horse? Everybody thinks it's just a quarter horses does Western pleasure, but not. No. Okay, what's what is a Western pleasure horse? Typically, seriously, a Western pleasure horse, a really good one, only does that class. They're bred for that. Yes. They're trained for that exclusively. Like you're trying to make a Western pleasure horse. Yes. Okay. And a lot of them And who shows it? The open the well, it's mostly like an open rider. Okay. And then there's an amateur youth can also, but usually like the open rider will start them, do like the two and three-year-old classes. Okay. And then, you know, maybe like when it's four or the towards the end of its three-year-old year, though. Okay, that's amateur will trajectory. Yeah, okay. It's right, it's like the same. And then maybe depending, like if the horse was really, really good, it'll typically stay a pleasure horse. But some of them go on to do like the trail and the western riding. They're usually talented enough to do other classes.

SPEAKER_03 34:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

So what's a stock horse then? That's just like the overarching quarter horses' paints. Absolutely. So it's more of like an umbrella term. Yes. Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. Like any any breed. Any breed. Like that they go with her head down. You know? So it'd be like saying saddle seat versus English pleasure. Probably. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Because it used to, I think at open shows there used to be like a stock horse pleasure class or something. And yeah. You know, it was supposed to be like the quarter horse type. Like it was just like a maybe like a chunkier build not a thoroughbred type book. We do, we have a lot of appendix that show in the English classes in our quarter horse server.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 35:29

Yep. Yep. I they're not for me. I don't like them. I've had one before. I will not. Oh, they're too spicy. Okay. I don't get along with them. No. Okay. It's not my idea. Like too much forward or too much attitude. Just like, and they're not smart. I this is like my opinion only. This is only because of the colour. I only have therebrand recepts, and I'm like big thumbs down on that. So you won't hurt my feelings at all. I'm not a TB lover. No. It's not. First of all, they eat so much. Yeah. And then don't gain weight. They eat so much and they always look skinny. And you can't reason with them. No. No matter what. Once they decide they're not doing a thing, it doesn't matter. Even if you're like, you should eat food, they're like, no. No, not today. Not doing it. And then once they have a baby, they're like, did you know this was gonna happen? Like they're shocked. Yeah. You're like, no, take care of it. Thoroughbred recips, not for me. Yeah, I'm not, I'm just not a TV person. No, it's just not for me. I've had like four, and me neither. Of course, mine are recips. So maybe they were like the real cast. Yeah, though they threw it. Well, that's like a real thoroughbred. You know, I had one that was like crossed with a Western pleasure horse, and I still was like, eh. But he just was like, he just his brain wasn't fun. No, it just wasn't. Every day was like Groundhog's Day, starting over. Where so I think Morgan's and Saddlebreds, I feel like you look into one of their eyes and they're thinking. So intelligent. So like creepy smart. They're very smart. Are they trying to work out what you're trying to work out all the time? Like, I see you seeing me. Yeah. Have you always felt that way? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I my favorite horse growing up was actually a national show horse. And my mom was in the Arabians. Okay. And she was really talented on the ground and a really talented instructor. She didn't love showing so much. And she so she was so crazy, crazy talented. But she didn't want to show and she didn't want to run the business. So she was like a professional assistant and instructor her whole life, which is great for me because she showed me like I wasn't doing lining at 10, you know. And she's like, You're doing it wrong. And I'm like, I know, but it's a lot of rope and I'm this thing. But she she was great. And you know, she's she's a very good instructor. So I grew up with a national show horse that was my favorite face. She was given to me by a trainer. Let me tell you what that means. When a trainer gives a 12-year-old girl a two-year-old horse, that's a bad thing in Hombre. He was like, we can keep this money. Oh no. She was terrible. But I loved her and she was so intelligent. And that was learned a ton. I did, I would go to a horse show and I'd see something. Her name was Rita, lovely Rita, like the Beatles song. I would see something at a horse show and I'd go home and do that to Rita, that poor horse. And that's what I learned. If you make stretchies short enough, they will all trot high. I can get Zeus to trot high. If give me a stretchy short enough. You stretchies? No. So when you go to the gym and you've got like the elastic bands, yeah. So if you make them this long and you put them on their front feet, they pull really hard. We just try and get it off, right? Yeah. Terrible idea. It's terrible. If we use correctly, beautiful tool, right? Because you're developing range of motion and strength at the top of the stride. Just like we do as people. Exactly. Used correctly, brilliant. Used the way I did at 13. Not correct. Terrible idea. So poor Rita, stretchies this long. And then I was like, I went to a horse show. I was like, they're jumping. You're a jumper now. And I went home and I would I jump her. And then I decided in one day I was going to teach her lead changes at four years old. Okay. And we did 5,000 lead changes. That horse is a saint. I'm pretty sure I'm going to get to heaven if she's just going to hightail it the other way. She's not waiting for me. She's like, no. Not her. No. She was like, no, she's caught me for the last time. But that was the first really intelligent horse that I had. And the first horse that I felt like I knew her and she knew me. Like we were friends. Yeah. You're beautiful. That's a tough girl. There's another so many animals. Oh my god. Just a lot. But she was really intelligent. And then I started working with Morgan's when I was in my late teens, early 20s. And it was that same kind of very soulful, very intelligent, trying to figure out what you're they're trying to work out, what you're trying to work out. Yeah. And the saddlebreds do this do a similar discipline. So I was exposed to them. I don't the smart saddlebreds are very smart, but I think the spectrum is a lot bigger for saddlebreds. Like I've not really come across too many unintelligent Morgans. They might be unwilling, but they're not unintelligent. You'll come across a dunce of a saddlebred once in a while. But the smart ones are really smart. And when you have a good saddlebred showhorse, tops. Tops. They're so naturally competitive and they know the difference. Like they they know when it's a horse show and they know when it's time. They drag you through the gate. Like a really good saddlebred. Yes. Okay.

unknown 40:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 40:14

A really good saddlebred show horse is hard to top. But I think if you're working on the law of averages, I've had more positive experiences with Morgan show horses than across the spectrum than saddlebreds. Like I just think there's your odds are better that you're going to get a really good Morgan than that you're going to get a really good saddlebred. With that said, the good saddlebreds are great. Yeah. Like they're the best, best ones. That's and so that's what I've ridden is the saddlebred before. Yes. And I showed at Devon. I know. That's a big thing. The country. Well, I was like, I just got I want to do this. Like, who what can I rent to like make this happen? I got a custom suit made just for one. No, we did not. Sure did. You don't have to do that. Sure did. We should have been friends. You could have borrowed something. I was like, I'm going all in. But I I I showed in The Country Pleasure. That's hard. You had to stop and stand. They don't like to do that. He would not flat walk. They don't like to do that either. That's like the one thing they're supposed to do. It was, it was, I was like, we went to one horse show before that to try it. And he was great. And then I go to Devin and just the advocate. Devin's a lot of energy. He was a five-gated horse in his early life. He didn't. And then slow gate shuffle. Yeah, he did. He did. I was like, dear cups, tear cups. And I'm like, that's kind of fun. This is what it's low. I like it. I liked it. I'm like, can we rack? Can I just rack? I was like, I'm gonna blow it. So let's just do it. No. Let's just go. Yeah. But it was, he was so cool and it was so fun. And I love the feeling of those horses. Like, I love them up in your hand like that. Like, I just, I like that. Like, but not enough. You don't do it. I know. I do I could easily be persuaded into any discipline. And feel the same way. Discipline. I could jump, I could do braining, I could do barrel racing, I could show saddlebrads, I can do dressage. I don't care. If it's a good horse, I'm all in. Same page. Yeah. Same page. But immediately just good. No, she doesn't even get it. She doesn't even get the dots to see if you're typing her. No. No. So okay, we had to take like a little break because my camera died and we needed a refill. But you were asking me if I thought $1,500 was worth it for the weekend. Oh no. Wait, okay, here's why. Here's why I say no. Currently, we don't win anything. Like I You win some good prizes. That that we talk about the prizes a lot. Okay, so because I am all about the prizes. Because what do you do with them? Hang them up. What do you do? Well, okay. I want to have room a troll? Yeah. Yeah, of course. Yes, I do. Of course. But a lot of what we went like a couple years ago, I went to a horse show specifically because they had this it's called like a performance stall mat. I remember hearing about this. And I was like, I'm going. Yeah, I hear about this. If I need to go in the barrel. I Googled it. I was like, why would she go to a horse show? I saw. And you wanted Zeus to have a mattress? Yes. And he got a mattress. Because I was like, that's awesome. That mattress is mine. So you're gonna stay at home and bought one, probably. I know, you know. That's what Kyle's like, okay, so you spent $1,500 to get a $500 mattress. And I'm like, Yeah. But I feel really good about it. Yeah. So, but then like when I a lot of people like you'll see, and I'm I'm curious for like your clients, but like for us, for like our world shows and like the Congress, and this is such a crazy number. Like, are you ready for this? Yeah. Okay. Typically, I mean you expect to spend around $10,000 to $15,000. Okay. Yeah. For con but Congress is like you move in for a year. Yeah, we're there for the city. You pay taxes in the state of Ohio. Yeah. Yes. In the sh it's the armpit of America, though. Well, have you you've shown in Columbus? I've been to the town. I have not been I've not been to I don't think we do show there, actually. We show in Springfield, Ohio. Yes. I don't think I've been to Columbus. I don't think you can be in horses and not hear about Congress, though. Like I know it's giant and a lot of vendors. And then apparently awesome horse trailers, which let me tell you how much I like to shop for horse trailers. I will never buy. I don't know why this is a thing. I'm shopping for my friends that don't have horses. I'm like, look at this horse trailer. They're like, I don't have horses. I'm like, but look, you should have this trailer. Yes. I don't know. And that's, you know, the interview with Katie Joe, I was like, that's the one thing she and I disagreed on. I was like, you should have an awesome new horse trailer. I do not, but I will eventually. Oh, they are gorgeous. Gorgeous. That's how I'm picking my next husband. I'd like to see horse trailer. Yeah. I'd like to see your profile picture and also your horse trailer. Please. Yes. Yes. Thank you. I'll make my selection from there. Thank you. Anyway. So yeah, so Cornerhouse Congress is a super big deal. And I would think you're there for like a month. Yeah. So even like they've segregated it a little bit where now, like, kind of like the ranch riding people go in in the beginning in the raining. Okay. And then there's like some halter stuff and some jumping. And then it's like the all-around people who come in. So it's a a little bit of a revolving door. Okay. But like we're typically there for a solid two weeks. You go with a trainer, you can expect to spend $10,000 to $15,000. Okay. And for that, what do you get? Like what is your so especially the people that I go with specifically stay in what's called the Gilligan barn. Okay. Um better stabling. Yeah. And it's like a, you know, you have to pay sponsorship. So we are really big into sponsorships at our board shows too. We have a lot of corporate sponsors though. We don't have that in Oregon's Saddle Reds. We have to sponsor as like a barn to get good stalls. We do that. Yeah. We do that. Yeah. I mean, maybe not the same number, I'm guessing. But I don't know. They're a little tricky because they aren't, they're not like it's like the IRS. They're like, how much do you think you owe us? I know. Like they don't, they won't say like this if you give us this many dollars, you get these stalls. They won't do that. They're like, how about you give us money and then we'll decide if that's enough money to get the good stalls? So then you're shooting, you know, this is a scatter shot. Like, I don't know, here's five grand. Yeah. Do I have one? That's not enough. Yeah. I can pay stalls. I know. So yeah, so I think the sponsorship thing for stalls is pretty typical across across disciplines. I know a lot of people hate it. Like, like customers. Like, we, you know, just because you're like, are you freaking kidding me? Or like people will pay it and still not get the good stalls. And then they're like, okay, okay, so that that sucks. Yeah. That sucks. And it, but I guess tell me about at Congress specifically, I guess, good stalls versus not good stalls. What's the difference? Like for us, the barn's heated. And that's because it's that's a huge climate is a huge difference. Okay. Yeah, it's got all because you know it could snow. It could be 80 degrees or it could snow. So the barn we're in is heated. And then the our horse trainers typically put up like a whole setup, like not shorts, but it's like they have builders come in and like build a home away from home. Yeah, I have a storage locker in Oklahoma City for my temple that we build every year for Morgan Grand. Same. I mean, it's the same. Yeah. This year, my horse trainer, we got bumped to another barn and we were like all sad about it and stuff, but we made the best of it. And honestly, like the what we built there was like really homey and warm, and like we were good. Like everybody was out there. Does that matter to you? Yeah. Yeah. At that horse show, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I want to say no typically. I'd be like, whatever, I don't care. Well, you know what the right answer is, but you know what's in your heart. But in my heart, it's true. Like, no, yeah, it matters there. Because I, if I'm gonna spend that much money, I don't feel like good about it. I totally get that. So that Congress sounds more like Louisville with the Saddle Reds than it does wearing Grand National with the Morgans. Like at Grand National, I would say the difference between the best stalls and the worst stalls from the horse experience, super minimal. Like super, super minimal. It's more fun to be closer to the show ring and like have the big displays and like you see all your friends, you know. Like that part's more fun, but from the horse experience, and I've been in the best stalls, and I've definitely been in the worst stalls, very similar. Go to Louisville with the saddlebreds, it's a different horse show depending on where you're stabled. I believe that. Wait, so okay, so the first one you were talking about Oklahoma City. Yes. So that's so two. I have two breeds. Morgan's and Saddlebreds. Okay, so the Morgans are in Oklahoma, and then the saddlebreds are in Logo. Correct. And so we go to Oklahoma for our world show, also. Yes. Oklahoma City. And it has to be the same till it is. It is. And it's have you been to it recently now? Yes. So I went last year to work. Yes. And the year before I went and showed, and that was the last year in the Norwick arena. So sad. So like actually the best things that have happened to me in my entire life happened in that arena. Right. And then so that was it was it's crazy to see it gone now. But then also the distance you have to walk is wild. Don't love it. Like I don't know, I guess how else they would have done it. And it's gonna be a growing pain here for a minute, but yeah. I think it's hard not to be blue. Like it I showed a lot of facilities. You show a lot of that was a good one. Yeah. Like, I don't know. Couldn't we? I don't know. There I guess that was the only solution. Like, I guess they can't build, they couldn't tear it down and build it at the same time. No.

SPEAKER_00 49:21

Do I show it wek at all?

SPEAKER_02 49:24

In Ocala, we have one horse show there. Um, I've shown there a couple of times. Isn't it amazing? Fabulous. Amazing. Fabulous. Like I would I say I would go there once a month, and that would be the only thing I would ever do. The horse experience there is so positive. For us, for me specifically, that show is almost back to back with Morgan Grand National. So I've just sat in a truck for 26 hours driving home, and I would have to get back in a truck for 18 hours two days later. So the timing of it's unfortunate. There was the very first year they had the O'Cala International. I was scheduled to take horses and we came home from Oklahoma. We brought the Oklahoma crud with us. And I was like, Yeah, I can't now take these, the second string of horses. Not second string, like in inferior, different string of horses. Yeah, like who didn't come? Saddlebrids. Yeah. Yeah, the saddlebreds to O'Cala. I was like, I don't know, I got something moving. Like, I can't. Like, I don't even think I can get health certificates. I've got a fever going on. Everybody ended up being fine, but all my customers had hotel rooms, like tip flights, like they were all ready to go. So 48 hours out, I'm like, hey guys, I actually can't take your horses. And again, I have the best customers who be like, or we could just go and like hang out vacation for my gosh, the most fun horse show ever. I'm like, I got the customer experience. Like, I didn't have to be up to feed. I didn't have to, I had no responsibilities. I just entertaining, which is very interesting. Did you guys stay in the hotel? We stayed in like the good one. The good one. Yeah. Oh my gosh. We were like stir-ups every night. And like we had the ringside table, like we did it, you know. So it was so much fun. It was so much fun. And then the next year we brought horses, which was still very fun for everybody else. Not as much fun for me, but still very fun for everybody else. But that facility is incredible. Incredible. I know. I love how the horses feel there. Like I swear to God, Zeus gets off the trailer and takes a deep breath. They're on vacation too. Yes. Yeah. My cells at home aren't that nice. No. Right? I know. We talk about the mattress. I know. Zeus, like, he's lays down. What I haven't done though is Wec, Ohio. Is that similar or not really? So that's what I'm saying. That's not where Congress is. No. Okay. No, unfortunately. I wish it was, but I don't think the the town definitely can't handle Wilmington, Ohio can't handle. Infrastructure is a big deal, actually, for having a horse show of that size. Like, there's just no way. Even so we have our, we call it our level one championships at Wekohio. Okay. And that's I leave on Saturday for that. And that is everybody who's considered a novice, it's like their championship show. What is level what does level one mean? Level one is either level one could be the horse or the brider. Okay. And that's for most generically, it's typically around 25 points that they haven't earned over 24 points. How do I get how do I get a point? Just in competing, like winning every like depending on how many people are in the class, you get a certain number of points. Okay. So it's like a sliding scale. Exactly. Yes. So my thing with it, I almost wish though, that we would do the novice or the level one division a little different and let people have two years. So two years. So if you have like one bang in season, you're not kicked out of it. Got it. Okay. Because sometimes I feel like there are people who buy like a really, really nice horse and like they might knock it out of the park and then like, but they only show twice. But they're still really like they're still getting to know their horse. Green, right? Yeah. Right. Right. So and or there's somebody who legitimately has a green horse, green rider. It's gonna take, you know, you know, it takes at least a year to get to know your horse. Yes. Really. Yes. It does. Yeah. And then that second year is when they're like, okay, now we can go. Like now we got it. We can like start to show a little bit more. So for the uh some of these people, you could point out in one horse show. And then like you're out. I mean, you can still show that for the rest of the year, but the following year, you're what's the shortest time frame that you could earn 25 points? Oh, a weekend. Oh, well then yeah, you have to, it's gotta be a bigger window than that. But you would stay novice for the rest of the year. Yeah, but some horses and riders are gonna be novice forever. So people do that. So people intentionally, yeah. How would you they'll watch their points and then they'll stop showing so that they can stay down a lot. They don't roll over year to year. If you do if you they they go by a three-year scale, we have so many rules. Like now that you're asking me this, I'm like, my gosh, it's very complicated. It seems like there are a lot of ways to cheat. There's a lot of ways to cheat. There are. But people so so for the amateur division, there's 11 years. They do. Really? Yes. Interesting. And I actually don't like that. I'm not wired that way. Me ether, Alicia, because so this is my deal. I I am a level three amateur, which is like, and I'm not saying this as like a shitty thing. Like it's it's the highest you can get because I've shown so much. Okay. So like I have the highest amount of points, so that's I'm considered a level three. Is there a level four? No. You're in. You're Rainbow Road Mario Kart. All right. Yeah. Yeah.

unknown 54:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 54:28

All right. Yes, you can tell you were born in the 80s. Oh my gosh. Speaking of language. Yes, I still have Nintendo 64. I still can't beat Rainbow Road. It's fine. So, but so like a lot of people will try and stay at a level two so they don't have to compete against the level three people. And I'm like, no, you try harder, so you can like keep trying to do it. It should be time or points. Right. You can be here for two years and then or four years, and then you gotta go. You gotta move up. That's the point. Is to be be more successful. Do you win better stuff as a level three? No. No, just harder competition. Yeah. So it really isn't a lot of incentive to like actually move up. But I think it's like it's just like a cool accomplishment to be like well, I mean, yeah, except for like, you know, personal satisfaction, which should actually be the thing we're all striving for. Right. Like the prices aren't better, but you know, I know I'm better. I know I'm better. And that's you know, for me, some of these girls that I compete against are like insanely good. You know, and I I look at that and I'm like, I can just show them. Like I'm that level, I'm not that level, but I am that level. So it's cool for me to be a part of that crowd. Do you think you're like aware of where you are in the amateur lexicon? Like, or do you think you got a handle on it or not really? No. I want to interview somebody else and ask them. I have to pick who you're gonna interview. I actually have no, I don't know. You know, I it's even like some of it's been weird. I had somebody a couple people at Congress that are like, are you kinder culture? And I was like, I'm Allie. I was like, I'm Allie, but hi, yeah. Like it was I think it's great. It was it was kind of silly, but it was cool. I because I don't think about myself that way. I'd like somebody said to me the other day. You should I think about you that way all the time. I told all my staff today, I was like, I've got to be out of here at a certain time because I have a very important podcast to do. And then they see me leaving the rest, they're like, What is happening here exactly? Um, and actually, for people who are just listening, we are sitting here in formal wear. Yeah. And the reason that we're sitting here in formal wear is because at the Saddleburn and Morgan shows, yeah. This is how we do dressed up. We do. And you know what? You know what is so badass? It's so fun. But you know what's badass? Is you will run a horse down the alleyway in that outfit. I am I have washed a horse's tail and heels. More than once. I mean epic. More than once. That is like such an iconic. Like, I actually want to take pictures of you doing that. Like, I was that creepy. Oh my gosh, I did the terrible thing. I did a terrible, terrible thing. So the I have a fortunate, I have a very a fabulous horse named Shakedown. And yeah, wait, is that the one I took pictures of? Yes. Yes, okay, okay. He's incredible. Once in a lifetime horse, yeah. Okay. And also just producing incredible thing. This is a once in a lifetime horse. Like, I just don't know how this happened to me. I'm so fortunate. I picked him out as a baby. He's my buddy, like my heart horse. So the first time I'm really like, I actually think we have a chance at the Park Harness World Championship. And I wore this cobalt blue dress and I, you know, tried it on at home. And I was like, this is the one. It's beautiful. It's got like a conservative slit, stops at the knee. Sounds great. I'm nervous for where this is really. So bad. It's so, it's so, so bad. So I sit in the cart, and it's a four-wheeled hide harness cart. So you're kind of off the ground, and like there's nothing, you're not in the cart, you're in a cart. So you're as you're on display a little bit. So I'm like, great, because this is a banged dress. Yeah. Killing it. It's October. So girlfriend's not tan. Yeah, also legs. Oh yeah, it was not good. And I'm in the dress and I'm behind my horse. And when I should be like thinking about like, is the check right? Is this towel right? How like, do I want to go first, second, third, down the ramp? All I'm thinking is this dress is like really riding up. It's so bad. And you were gonna show like that. Oh, I had to show like that. And my friends are like, maybe some safety pins. So they're running to the doll to like close it up a little. And you know when you know it's hopeless and you have to just call it out. I'm like, I just think I just think we might be going ass out. No, yeah, sure did. Sure did. So fabulous pictures. I can use none of them. None of them. It's it is so bad. Because it's not like you can sit there with your legs crossed. No. It was so bad. It was I just like everything went. No. Oh I was no. I would think I was, I don't even know what it was. I think it was third, and most of my pictures I'm like looking down at my leg. Ow. Holy owl. So bad. So so so bad. At that time, it seemed like a great idea. It was a great dress. I should have worn it tonight. That's like, you know, an honorary send-off. We could have burned it outside later. I don't really know that that story had a point, other than maybe when you're competing at a very high level, you should think of all the details. And you know, the dress matters and like what people think of you matters. And I was definitely very aware after the fact that I had a really great horse that I did not rise to the occasion in terms of wardrobe. Oh my god, that's something I would do though, too. It's okay. I feel like everybody, everybody's like, what is she wearing now? That's that's like what I get. You wear some wild stuff. But and you know what? I also quarter horse photo shoots out there. Well, like we should do it out there. Like start making this a thing with like your industry. Like, yeah, yes. We like to have a good time. Like, people are like, How do you think of this stuff? And I'm like, Well, I just think really weird shit. Like, I I do like so it's like a big puffy dress, yeah, like what I have on right now, blowing in the wind. Yeah, it's beautiful. Yes, you're very gifted, so that helps. You wouldn't have let me go in with that dress. You'd have been like, girl, no. Oh, no. I probably would have been like, Yeah, do it. No, you feel good, you let you know what I say. You look good, you feel good, you ride good feeling that yeah. At the time, I was like, I feel great, actually. Yeah, that's all that matters. I'm telling you, it mattered a lot. It is impressive what you guys get done in those outfits because I could never like can you imagine doing showmanship in an outfit like that? No. And I again, I don't run in dirt. Right. You don't run in dirt either. You do something like running. Well, ish, I know. Okay, so and we as showmanshippers, okay. I'm a glass in, so I'm about to ask you a real question, right? Okay. What the thing is, is we're supposed to run pretty with the horse, right? So that's why it looks weird. So we don't want a lot of movement in our shoulders. You don't want your arms like pumping. So, and you think about it as like leading with your hips, okay. And it's like soft, right? So it's a soft lead with your hips and run. I'm having to teach my seven-year-old daughter how to do this right now, and she runs like a bull in a China shop. And I'm like, pretty, run pretty. And I'm like, but I can't look like a linebacker, but it's fine. We'll get there. Her arms out to the side real wide, and I'm like, not gonna tackle the judge, but he's fine. It looks like you're leading a horse and also carrying a tray of drinks. Perfect example. Yeah, that's what it looks like to me. I'm like, oh, she's just she's hustling those drinks to the table. Yes, that's what that's like what it should look like. Like, I think so, because you win a lot. So I'm like, that must be what they're going for. It's it's I don't, you know what? I don't know if I love that class. I've like had to learn to like it because I've had horses that are good at it. But like I when I was a kid, I had a horse that was so rotten and nasty about that class. He would bite me the entire time, rear up, flip over, like pull his fake tail out. Like it was embarrassing. And it's always the first class of the weekend. It is. So you set the tone. It is. I joke that like it could happen where I'm gonna get to the judge, I'm gonna pop lock and drop it if I need to like set the tone for the code. All right, well, that should just be the move next time. If you're like, you know what, I feel like this class has just gone to shit anyway. I'm gonna do it. Watch this. Yeah. I mean, if it's if it's going bad, let's just make let's just make a memory here. I think you should do it. You know, I think you should do it. That was the class when we, you know, 4-H. Yeah, you had to do it. Yes. You have to do it. And that was my jam because you did not have to have the best horse. No, your horse had to stand real good and be clean. Yes. And like, I can do those things. So showmanship was my me and my POA in my little yellow suit. That's a vibe. With a POA. Yeah, that's beautiful. She was great. I wore yellow. Who was consulting this? I bet it looked great on you though. I th I thought it was awesome. I I won a lot of stuff in that yellow suit at eight years old. I was like, I'm I'm banging in showmanship in this. Yes. But yeah, you know, I I liked that because it was like I didn't have to have the best horse as long as I was like sharp and my horse stood, which she didn't want to move, so standing was great for her. Yeah. But yeah, I liked showmanship very much at that point. And it's still, I'm sure it's, you know, obviously there's an evolution of that. It is super precise. But it does, there's some tenets of that division that I understood as a kid that seem to still stand. Like you have to be meticulously groomed. Presentation is everything. You have to be sharp, you have to be showy without looking stuck or posy. Yeah. Like there's a lot of showman showmanship to that division, which I can appreciate. And I do think that translates to riding, whether people realize it or not. And there's the patience factor. Like you have to stand for a long time and look cute. Do you know what? Teaching a new horse showmanship. Can't imagine. Talk about patience. Can't imagine. It is next level because you, you know, it's like every little thing, just okay, you don't understand. So we're just gonna go really slow. How do you practice? You just go stand outside for a while. So do you know what? I do a little bit of showmanship every day. Really? Yeah. Like I when I pre or post work. Pre, typically. So when I'm grooming my horse, I will literally set him up in the routine. I will set him up at the horse shows. Okay. So and if he moves and I'll ground tie him. So if he moves, I'll go back, I'll go into my show position and I'll reset him up. Whoa, and like keep grooming. And like again, if he moves a foot, I go back up, push back, make him stand there the whole time. Okay. Are you going so you know you're not tied, not cross-tied, nothing? Nothing. It's like hanging out in the aisle. Yeah, because I want him to just feel like totally cool in that position. Okay. And like know that it's safe. And like as I walk around him, then he doesn't need to move. He doesn't need to get worried about anything. And that's very cool. Because the judges go around us. Yes. You know? You have to like work your quarters. Yes, exactly. So sometimes horses will like change the order you know, expression with that. Mary's, I would think in particular, yeah, are gonna love that. Like they're like, what's going on back there? Studs even worse. Yeah, well, I'm sure. Studs are terrible.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:05

I'm trying to think.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:07

Actually, no, actually, I was gonna say amateurs can show studs, but it's not typical to see a stud. I can't imagine studs with like showmanship. Yeah. Yeah. So that is, but and then like Zeus, I don't do showmanship with him that often because he's really broke at it. So I don't I don't do it. When you bought him, what did he do? Went around. Okay. Okay. Did he have a show record when you purchased it? Yeah, so he did the Hunter Under Saddle English very successfully with a select rider who's like our uh 15. What does that mean? So Select is like 15 over. So your Select is our masters. Yes. Okay, yes, yes. I cannot wait to be a Select rider. My husband is like counting down his like two more years. Oh my god. I'm a master's. And I'm like, well, you're still terrible, but but you will be against other people your age. So we have that to look forward to. I compete against these college writers. And everyone's heard me cry by no, but I but not. You are fine. You practice so much. I do, but they I'm a mom. I'm a mom bod. I just can't I can't sit the way they do. Like I literally physically cannot anymore. And I'm like I think I gotta reality check this a little bit. I recognize that you have a child, and I do believe that you birth her. But you do not have a mom bod. You look great. This seems silly to me. It's different, though these colors they have personal trainers. Like that they've got nothing else to do. They're also reading their comments every night and crying themselves to sleep. I do too. No, actually turn the comments. You say ghost and post and ghosts. I do. I do because it hurts. It's hurtful. I don't know how you do it. You're so brave. I mean and I don't mean to not like the thing, you two me. Like you're so brave, actually. It's not easy. It's not a good thing. I want to talk about your podcast. Okay. We can do that. Should we stop talking about horses? No, just kidding. I'm staying until like Tuesday. So that's fine. I love your podcast so much for so many reasons. I've learned so much about other stuff, like not Morgan's and saddlebreads. And I think the people you choose are fascinating, with the exception of one. I think the rest of them are incredible.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:20

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:20

I like how I like that you have very specific personalities. And I feel like I'm getting to understand the industry. And I'm like, everybody you have on, I'm like, oh, that's like so and so in our world. Oh, good. It's I cannot tell you how much I enjoy it. Cool. Well, I'd love to hear that. I would love to interview more people from other industries because like I feel like I'm so narrow in my reach because it's just like quarter horse paint. Well, that's kind of why I I said that to Kyle. I was like, you know, I've learned so much listening to your podcast, and there have been a couple. I'm like, gosh, I just feel the same way. And I know we do completely different things, but like speaking the truth. Yeah. And it's I guess it's made me realize the the industry is very, very broad, but the challenges that we all face are super similar. And the things we like are super similar. And the things that are hard are super similar. And I don't I just don't know that you get there just aren't a lot of podcasts or even like social media out there that Hunter Jumpers and Dressage excepted. Yeah. Because they all want to talk about what they do all day, every day. Yes, which is true. Which is true. Fine. But there aren't you, I just don't see a lot of quarter horse representation. I don't see any saddlebred or Morgan representation. You guys don't have anyone that does a podcast? Not that I'm aware of. What? Not that I'm aware of. Oh my god, tell them to call me. I would love, I would not that I know a ton about the industry, but like again, like I could definitely it's fascinating. You know? It's fascinating. And everything, the stuff that you talk about is so incredibly relatable across the different seats and divisions and breeds. And like, man, I just think I just I think it's cool that you've got a very conversational approach and you're interviewing people that are interesting to me and I don't even know who they are. I'm sure they're really interesting to the people who know who they are. But it's yeah, it's been really fun. I like it a lot. I appreciate that. I like it a lot. You know, and and with that being said, you said a lot of it's like very similar across the board. I am curious, what do your numbers look like?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:19

Like as far as participation.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:23

Nothing like the quarter horses. But has it declined in the recent years? So the Morgans are on a little bit of an upswing for sure in terms of breeders. We have way more Morgan breeders now than we had.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:34

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:35

Um, there's there was a program launched in like 2020, 21 that very specifically promoted Morgan wheelings as show horses, like breed a baby, and then you can compete for this money. Superior Morgans, sweepstakes class, and it was hugely successful. And that program alone bolstered the numbers. So we have way more Morgans. The saddlebreds are haven't been quite as quick to try to follow that trend. But it's interesting because coming into this, I was like, well, one of the things that we're doing wrong is the Morgans and saddlebreds are not accessible to the amateur owner. Because I thought you were typical. I was like, because the quarter horses have alleys where it's like, yeah, I want you to be able to take your show horse home and like live with it and enjoy it. So I thought that was typical. So now I don't know why the quarter horse numbers are succeeding. Where we're not. You don't think so? No. Okay, explain. It's not bad, bad, but it's not great. Like years, which year, like, what do you what do you if you had to like whip a guess out there? What do you think's going on?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:47

Money.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:48

Too expensive.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:50

Yeah. I mean and time.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:53

I think time. I think because the majority of our horse shows are like I said, Wednesday to Sunday. You have a family, and like say you're say your kid. Okay, let me put it perspective this way. Seriously. If if somebody came, I'm not a horse trainer, obviously, but say somebody came to me and they're like, I want my kid to ride, you know, what am I looking at to get into like the quarter horse world? Okay. At a minimum, and I mean minimum, not gonna win, probably, is a $30,000 to $50,000 horse. Okay. A minimum of for what like just to do one division-ish, ten thousand dollars in tack and clothing, okay, plus what fifteen hundred dollars a month in training for someone, and then the weekend's gonna cost you with a trainer, let's just say around two grand.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:40

What family can I talk into doing that? And then they're like, we're gonna play travel baseball.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:48

So no, you know, to be honest with you, my daughter takes hunter lessons here locally, also, and you know, she goes once a week for a lesson. And if she wants to go to a horse show, we can borrow a horse and go to a horse show at the most five hundred dollars and fun, and she has fun. I'm not saying we don't have fun at our horse shows, but but the investment is insane. You have to own the horse. I agree. People cheat with the owning thing, and really yeah. Oh, we don't have that. Yeah, so you could put any horse in anyone's name, to be honest. Like how does that help you win? Like somebody can put a horse in my name to let like if they have a say, say the horse is owned by somebody who's like in their late 60s, early 70s, and they really don't want to ride it, but they have this great horse, you know. And you have divisions restricted to ownership. Yeah. Oh, we don't have that. Amateur, you have to own the horse. Really? Yeah, you have to own the horse. It has to be. We don't your name on the papers. You don't really have that. And I like that. Yeah, we don't really have that. And now listen, there's people in our industry that, and it's it's kind of been like a thing recently on social media where people feel like that's cheating, where you could just like put whoever on this great animal and then they go and win. I get that. But it's a horse show. Like that's what we're right. I don't know. I think I see both sides of that. Yeah. Okay, so how do you guys do it?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:18

We don't really have how do you talk somebody into showing Morgan? Well, I think for me, it's I think for me it's actually a pretty easy sell.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:28

I have a couple of things that are baseline for me in terms of any conversation. One, I like horses more than money. You gotta know that going in. So I like horses more than money. If you're like, Alicia, would you like to be a gajillionaire or have a thousand horses? I'm like, I will take a thousand horses, please. So that's it. That's how I'm wired. I also think money is a renewable resource. I think it's pretty pointless. Um, we all can make it. I idiots can make money, right? Like we have to have a minimum wage. We have to have a minimum wage because it's like if you show up, you should be paid this much, at least for existing. True. Money is a renewable resource. I also didn't come from money, so I've got nothing really to lose. I'm like, well, I've had no money before. I could have no money again, but I do have horses now, so that's better.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:14

That's cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:15

I also think our sport is, and I think this is doesn't matter if it's Morgan's, quarter horses, saddlebreds, whatever it is. I think we way undersell it in general. Like, this is a lifetime sport. You can do it from the time you're five to 500. You can do it your whole life. You make generational relationships. No other sport does that. If you're 15 in any other sport, you're not competing against a 65-year-old. You're not, right? So it's cross-generational relationships. I think in terms of how expensive it is, it is expensive. I also know that you can talk to somebody who's in their 40s and hasn't shown in 20 years, and they're gonna tell you about when they showed horses as a kid. It's a it is an experience that you carry across your entire lifetime that you also can do with your kids and your grandkids. And not for nothing, we're outside, we're not looking at our phones. I've my phone's been here the whole time. We're doing well. You are doing well, but that's a sell to me, and we just don't use it that way. Like, do you want your kids to be out from in front of their phones and in the barn? Then take them to where the horses are. Like, there's a natural draw kids to horses. Yes, and we don't sell that nearly enough. How much would you pay to have Della not care if she was on the internet for a million dollars? There you go. So then $1,500 a month for training doesn't seem so bad. And I'm like, listen, every Saturday from nine in the morning until three in the afternoon, she's not looking at her phone, she's not caring about what she sees on the internet, she's hanging out with her pony. Yeah, that's worth a lot. And it is it expensive? Yes. Is it worth it? Also, yes. And I think we talk a lot about how expensive it is, but not what you're getting in return. I'm like, oh, a life-changing experience where you're meeting people that you never would meet and connections that are also very connected, right? Like, you want a job, know a horse person. I know, right in high-level jobs. It's actually crazy. That's a really good point. And you know what? Speaking of like with the kid thing, I remember I didn't start writing until a little bit later in life. I was like 12, 13-ish age. And if I would get in trouble, my mom would make me go to the barn more. It wasn't what she took away from me, even though she knew that was like the one thing I really loved. She'd be like, Well, you're gonna go, but then you're gonna clean all your tech and you're gonna spend time doing this and you're gonna practice harder. She'd make me do more at the barn instead of taking it away. Yeah. And I was always like, I but I always valued that because it made me a harder worker. Yes. You know, and and I I really like not many people that are successful in horses that are unsuccessful elsewhere. True. Like horses are really good for people, they're good for kids, they're good for adults. I just I think we focus so much on how expensive it is, and it is expensive, but it's expensive for you because it's expensive for me. Like they're living, breathing things, unfortunately, and they do dumb things, and they are always trying to off themselves, which is not a great feature. No, but I think when you look at the money you put in versus what you get out, I don't know, man. I just I'm hard pressed to find a football team that does more. That's a really good point. No, it's true, and I I agree with that too. And I I wish that there was a little bit more incentive in our association right now to like sell it to someone. And so I'm on the amateur committee for AQHA. Excuse me, and I want to promote people coming to our horse shows because just that, like, it's really like the like rah-rah spectator type, or yeah, oh yeah, totally. Okay, oh, totally. Yeah, okay, yes. Do you I have people all the time be like, are you always this happy? And I'm like, Yeah, actually, yeah. And it's not drug induced, like it's natural, it's weird. It might help if you're like also drugs. Also drugs. No, unfortunately, no, it's natural. But yeah, I just I I want people to love horses and I want people to love our sport. And I again, yes, it's expensive. But you can't love something that you're not introduced to, yeah, right? So, like, how many people do you know that they were like, oh, I went for a pony ride as a five-year-old, and my friend had a birthday party, right? Everyone. That's yeah, you if you give 10 girls the opportunity to touch a pony, eight of them want to take a riding lesson. Yes, it's just underexposure of what it is that we do so well. And there's nowhere to ride though, either. That is that that is now an actual problem. Yeah. And I'm guilty of that myself, so I really can't get on the soapbox, but we do need more actual lesson barns riding lesson barns. Okay, so I want to, this is gonna be like a hot topic. I want to talk about it. Yeah. So in the quarter horse world, like I said, introductory, there's like you're either in or you're out. Like there's not like really an introductory level. So I know in the saddlebred world, you guys have academy division. Yes, and you've talked about this a lot. And I actually want to talk to you about it. I'm obsessed with it. So yeah, so there are things about it that are great and on its face, super strong conceptually, but now we've been in it for a while. So, you know, you know how it is. You're like, this is a great idea. And now we're a little bit further down the road, we're like, oh, actually, these are the problems with it. Oh, okay. So Academy is uh it's a division. And if you if Della wanted to show Academy, she would ride at Scotfield, I'd give her some lessons, I'd get you pretty pumped up as the mom. I'm like, oh, she's so talented. Maybe she is, maybe she's not. But I'm like, oh, she's great. We gotta go try this. Yeah, she's super superstar. So I'm like, you should take Della to an academy show, and you can use Buster, this horse that I have here, that she's been riding every week for her lessons. And we take Buster to the horse show, and Dolly gets like a vest and some pants, and now we go to the horse show. And she shows an academy. And academy means that that horse, Buster, is not in training. He is a he's a bona fide lesson horse. So how do they val how is that validated? How did we know that it's true? We don't. That's problem number one. Okay. Because initially it was a super pure, right? Like, okay, well, that's everybody's gonna lesson horse. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Right. So in theory, I'm supposed to own Buster, or somebody who's not you is supposed to own Buster. And then we go to the horse show and Della rides Buster in her lead line or walk and trot class, and then we get a ribbon and like we're very excited. And the idea is it's of the division was it's supposed to introduce you to horse shows in a very palatable way. I love this show. Where you don't that part's great, where you don't have to purchase the horse. You pay some of the show expenses, and that's great. And then, you know, you go to the horse show, Della gets her ribbon, we go home, we're all super pumped. That part, great, but now it's evolved. So they I don't have a lot of academy. So I am speaking, I'm taking, I guess I probably have a little bit more of an outside perspective on it because I don't pursue it heavily, because I think I've thought for a long time I'm like, this is where this is going and I don't like it. Okay. So then they had an Academy Nationals, which is right, it's extremely competitive. Yeah. So that take that's not the point. That's not the point. And that the kids who win there, phenomenal. So the idea is, well, they're really talented kids who can't afford a show horse. But that now means the trainers are underwriting it, right? Because now if I just have the best academy horse, I can put kids on it and go be very competitive at an Academy Nationals, by the way, costs as much as the regular one. Right. Right. So what's happened is now horse trainers. Now, why would you buy a horse for Della when you can pay to rent mine and go to a cat you of course you wouldn't because you're not an idiot. Yeah. So like we kind of shot ourselves in the foot. We took this model that was supposed to draw people in, but now we've taken it to a level where now you can be extremely competitive and get the full experience for a third of the money. Why would you ever buy a horse? You wouldn't. I wouldn't. Of course, that's in the hunter world. And I know like their lease fees are like astronomical. You guys get a lease fee. We don't even get a lease fee most of the time. If you came to me and you said, Hey, I'm Allie, I'm a pretty good rider, I'd really like to lease a saddlebread. I have maybe not me personally, but I could find you horses where somebody would be like, just pay for its training, training, shoes. Cover its costs. Yes. Just take it off my books and you can there's no lease fee involved. Again, why would you buy a horse? So if the idea is to try to, we want people to own horses. Yeah. I want you invested. I want you to own a horse. I want you to buy a horse. The whole way that program is set up is the opposite. It makes it way more attractive for you to not own a horse. So on its space, great concept. Okay. But now that we're into 20 years of it, it's hurting us in terms of getting people to actually purchase a horse. Probably in the industry. Like try it out, and they're like, okay, that was fun. That was fun. Correct. Well, and then then you have like career academy riders, which sounds to me a little bit like your level one situation. Yes. It sounds similar where it's like, I'll just stay here where I can be really dominant for not a lot of money. Yeah, no. Which, you know, again, like I want everybody who wants to be able to ride a horse to be able to ride a horse. I feel that in my soul. However, if you have money to go to Academy Nationals, you have money to purchase a horse. And that's really what we need people to do because you have to support the breeders and you have to support the shows and you have to support the trainers. And nobody's going to do that if they are personally invested in owning a horse. What like what are the prices like right now? Like what's like an introductory price for like a walk and trot safe. No, like if I, like me as an amateur, if I want to go like maybe be compet. Where do you want to be competitive? I want to do like a like a gated something. Saddlebred. So you want a saddlebred? Do you want to be competitive on a saddlebred five-gated horse? Yeah. Expensive taste. Yeah, of course. Um I would say 75 to 100 to be competitive. Okay, really? Um, if you want to go to Louisville, you're probably looking at 150 and over. If you want to win a Louisville, you better own a magazine. Yeah, like right. Yeah. But also like Carson Cressley. Do you know I want to interview him so bad? Great. If I if I someday I'm gonna make it big and interview him, he will do that 100%. I would beat up. Do you think he'd come here to my barn? I know he would. I know he would. I know him really well. He's actually the reason I'm in this area. No way. Yes. So well, I know his I know one of his cousins very well. She's a photographer and a host girl, also, Stephanie. Yes. And uh I always and he is so sweet, and every once in a while. Very nice person. Or comment on one of my posts, and I'm like, he's a very nice person. And in his heart, he's a nice person. And he just loves horses. He loves horses. I love that. He yeah, he's the whole reason I'm here. I had a farm in Montrose, Pennsylvania, which is very far north and east and super duper cold. Yes. And it was like 2014, 15. We were still down here this long. So I was at that farm for, I don't know, like 12 years or something. And because I bought that farm, I think when it was like 21 or 22. And we were, I think we were in Kentucky, maybe like junior league or something. And Carson talked about a farm that he had, his family had his kid called Bluegate, and it had come up for sale. And he was like, you know, would you ever like consider relocating and like opening a training business there? If I like bought this farm, would you do that? And I'm like, I don't know. So we went, we looked at it, and a lot of things happened, and that deal couldn't go through. But I started looking at this area as like a could you have a Sal C operation here? And it turns out I made a lot of sense. It was like all of my new businesses coming from here, actually. And I'm like, I'm in Montrose, which is not to get to. Yeah, it's not a hot bed of saddlebred Morgan activity. Not that this is, but at least there are you can go anywhere from here. Yes. We live in such a central area. Great location. Highways, it's easy. And it's not too hot in the summer, not too cold in the winter. It's just a great location. So, anyway, that was how we kind of like got to looking at this area. And Carson is such a big advocate for Morgan, saddlebreds, hackneys, all things saddle seat, and just and of course, you know, he's just a wonderful person. I'm sure he would do it. So easy. I I don't I don't get nervous. I might. I would maybe get nervous. I would be like star. He's so lovely. He's so, so lovely. I would die. I would be like, okay, we can spend the day with me. We're gonna do a podcast, I'm gonna take your picture. Oh my god. She came to came to the farm and I had this really great gated mare, and I was like, just just he like he got to ride her. Is he talented as a rider? Extremely cool. I think that's even cooler. Yeah. He's you know though, he's like that really natural horseman where he's he's not scared of a horse because he rides them all the time, which is a big deal. Like he's you know, he'll take one out for a trial ride with his tail over its back. He doesn't care. I'm super, I mean, just great feel. He grew up with horses, super brave, super talented, lots of timing. He practices all the time, and of course, yeah, he's just beautiful on a horse. Um, but yeah, he's really talented. That's cool. That's like a cool part of him, too. He's great. Ugh. I don't even how did I even get to talking about him? I don't know, but I could talk about him all day long. He's so nice. Oh, well, I was asking like what the cost was for like an introductory horse. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so yeah, I think that's I think that's not an introductory. I meant like where I could like go and like be competitive and like if you I mean if you want to uh win a gated class at Louisville, you're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars. But if you want to go there and like make the cut and be able to participate, you could do that for 150, which is still a lot of money. And if you want to compete around here, 75. That's still that's still expensive. That's similar to though, like our world. Yeah. Although like the really good all-around horses are half a million enough. Yeah. For geldings. That's yeah, that's the thing. Oh my god. I I heard, I mean, and who knows, they're all like rumors, right? Like, I don't really know. But I heard of like one recently, like a seven year old gilding going for almost a million dollars. And I was like, what? I'm like, I don't even, I don't think I'll ever see a million dollars in my life. Like that I would have that in my account, that I could be like, this is disposable for a gelding. Like how much would I how much money would I have to have to spend a million on a horse? I know. I can't even imagine. I like I said, I I think maybe we were saying this off air, but I had never spent so much money on a horse as I did on Zeus. And really, unfortunately, the reason I had the money was because I had a horse that had died. Right. And I got the insurance money. Yep. And that I had I had a little bit on top of that to buy him. Sure. But otherwise, like do you regret it? No. Oh my God. I mean, he I've already promised him that he can die here. You will be buried here. I will not sell him. Well, he's your horse. He's my buddy. Yeah. He's my buddy. I think though that's a we we breed a lot of horses, a lot of horses. And I'm very attached to a couple of mine in particular. And my husband does a lot of the marketing for when we raise horses and whatnot. And one of the things he says is rare things cost more money. And that's true. And if you have a horse like Zeus, that's a rare horse. Like, how many horses are there out there that can do what Zeus does specifically for you? For me. Rare things cost money. So it might be a seven-year-old gelding, which sounds wild that they sold for a half million dollars, but I'm betting that horse does rare things. Like it does. You know, like rare things cost money. And if you are going to raise the horse, breed the horse, which is expensive, raise the horse, and then sell the horse. And you've got the one in 10,000, I better be able to get a half million dollars for that. True. I don't know. I but I'm really bad at selling horses too. Like if it's not great at it. Even if someone offered me like 300,000 for Zeus, I'd be like, no. I turned on a lot of a lot of money for Shakedown. And that was the best decision I ever made. Because the thing is, when we had the opportunity to sell that horse for it was like a blank check, kind of like just name a price. Like that's the one we want. And I was tore up about it. So I was like, this is stupid. Like be life-changing. Yeah, I was like, this is it. And I said to my husband, I was like, you know, we can do that, but then I should just quit tomorrow. Because the whole reason I'm in this.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:08

I'm gonna cry. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:09

The whole reason I'm in this is I wanted that horse one day.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:13

And now I have him. Yeah. And I'm like, I just am not. Oh, that makes me like I'm gonna, I'm tearing up. That makes me so emotional because I get that though, because that's how I feel too. Like I wouldn't be able to do that because you can't put a price on that opportunity. No, you know? No. Oh gosh, no. Make your husband mad at you. You know what? He was the first one who was like, absolutely not. Yeah. When I went to him and I was like, this is I got this phone call and I was so upset. I cried all day. Oh my god. And he was at a horse show. He's a horse show manager. He was at a horse show, and I called him and I told him, and I was like, so and so wants him. And we knew that so and so could pay anything. He's like, absolutely not. And I was like, oh, well, then he's my horse and also you're my person. Yeah, like the you get it. Just that was it. Like there was no, and he's changed that horse has changed my life and changed my career. I'm grateful every day for him and turning down all the times you could have sold him, best decision I've ever made. I believe that. I believe that. I remember I had a horse years ago that somebody offered us. This is like 15 years ago, somebody offered us a lot of money, and the trainer was, I'm like, no. And my my dad was like, you could pay off your house. I was like young and I had bought a house. My dad's like, you could pay off your house. And I'm like, yeah, but how do I replace this horse? Right. And I'm like, that's how you know you're a horse girl. I'm like, I can't. Like that's that's not typical. But that's so when I was talking about earlier, like customers that I like to work for, you're that kind. Oh, yeah. Because you get that. Like, there's a one of the things I use as an example, and you've talked about it a lot in your podcast, is the amateur trainer disconnect that happens sometimes. Yeah. Which you get, you understand it a lot more than I think almost any amateur because you live with your horses. I'm gonna say, because I'm like, I'm not a trainer, but I'm like kind of. You live with them, yeah, which a lot of amateur owners do not. Yeah. I'm like, let's say, for instance, we almost almost everybody who has horses has dogs, right? What if I said, hey, Allie, I'm gonna give you this puppy and I want you to raise this puppy and I want you to train this puppy, and this puppy's gonna live in your house. And once a week for an hour, I'm gonna come visit this puppy. I'm gonna pay you. I'm gonna pay you for its food, I'm gonna pay you for its vet care. And then once a week, when I show up, that puppy better be so excited to see me. And that for an hour every week, that's my puppy, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:33

That's what it's like being really weird. Yes. So I live, I live with your horse, I care for your horse. I know when your horse doesn't like that grain or doesn't like that hair, doesn't really love his new neighbor. So I move him three stalls down, and then you show up like, I don't like him in that stall. I'm like, well, your horse actually much prefers this stall. Your horse turns out doesn't like a window because he doesn't like it when the corn chopper goes by, right? So I live with your horse all week long, and then you come for an hour on the weekend, and you that horse better be so excited to see you because he's supposed to know you're paying the bills. That's what it's like to be a horse trainer. Like, I'm living with your puppy. And then when you decide you don't like it anymore, you just come and pick the puppy up. That's hard. That is hard. That's a really hard wild way to look at it, but I can't like actually that's like heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:23

It's it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:24

So I I like I can't even imagine so what if that person then comes to you and they're like, sell it. Also, very hard. Do you want to keep it in the barn? Like, do you have to try like if I like the horse, I try very, very hard. And I've gotten better about being very selective which horses I get attached to because I know myself. Like, if I own it, I love it full out. And then I'm an owner and I'm the worst owner. My horses are nobody is more spoiled than Seeger. He's the worst acting horse in the barn. And I'm like, every bad thing he does, I let him do it. He's like, he's so spoiled. Everybody's like, Seager's Seager's alive. I love him so much. Like it's so cute when he's bad. He's so bad. And it's all, but it's fine because I get to love that one wide open. Nobody can ever take him away from me. That's my horse. And I get to be an owner. I don't have to be his trainer. And I've got a couple like that where I'm like, once I know they're not for sale, they're just mine. But over time, you will have horses that you've had for a long time. Like there's a horse I have, Sinatra, who belongs to one of my best, best friends in the whole world. We selected him as three, uh, as a three-year-old, and now he's like eight or nine. And I love that horse, like he's my own. But part of what I love about him is he does know that Beth is his owner and he gets it. Like I'm a good coworker and we have a nice working relationship. But when she shows up, he's like, Yeah, but that's my person.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:49

And I like seeing that just as much. But it is a again, you live with your horses, so you can appreciate it, I think, a little bit more. But I I don't always think amateurs understand how actually attached trainers get to these horses because we do live with them all the time. And you can just choose to take it away for some sometimes good reasons and sometimes not good reasons at all. You know, it's and you know, I want you to, I want my trainer to be as invested in my horse as I am, but I can take it away anytime. That's hard. That is hard. That's that that is. I mean, and when you say it like that, like that's that is crazy. And you know, like I look it back at I think in my oh gosh, I guess I've been doing this for almost 30 years, which is shocking because you're 29. No, right.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:34

So how's that even?

SPEAKER_02 1:35:35

The mapping mapping. But when I think about it, I think I've only left, like really left, like two trainers. The one I still speak to, and the other one, like it did feel like a divorce. Yeah. And in my amateur heart, like I have again, I had always had the horses at home. So like it was gonna come home eventually. Yes. Do I think the way I did it was the best way? Probably not, honestly. I I'm sure. Nobody looks at a breakup and they're like, oh, I nailed it. Right, right. Like, and I I think the way I did it, I probably could have done it better. But at the time I was like, I can't do this anymore. You just need to, like, you know, like a divorce. You're just like, okay, I need to like do it. Today's the day. Today's the day, you know? But I definitely have a new appreciation, especially talking to so many of you guys that are horse trainers. I have such a deeper appreciation for the emotion that goes into it. For sure. And it's again, it's like being a business owner is god-awful when you're dealing with somebody's hopes and dreams. Yes. It's it's horrible. That I think though the It's great and it's horrible. It is great and it is horrible. But I think the the flip side of that is as a trainer, you do have to be very respectful of the fact that it is it is not your horse. And if your horse is not meeting your expectations, and I'm doing the best I can, and you think that horse is gonna thrive somewhere else, that's hurtful because I know I'm doing the best I can, but it also doesn't mean it might not be true. And that's a that's a hard reality. And that's pretty cool you can say that. Yes, I've had it happen. I've had it happen very specifically with the horse that I was like, that horse will kill a small child. I had such a relationship with him where I developed him and I took him from such a bad ombre where I was like, I'm pretty sure I'm the only one he won't kill, and I'm not putting a kid on that horse. And I was wrong. He went on and he was a great kid's horse, but I was never gonna trust him. We had we had too much history. Like I dated that boy for a long time. And I was like, like, I'll tell you, sometimes he's a criminal and he was past it, but I wasn't. I was never gonna forgive that horse for how he was to break. And he went on, and he was great. And in the moment, I was so upset because I thought I'd done a really great job, and I did do a good job with the horse, but I was never gonna give him a chance to grow past what he his past discretion is. Yeah. So yeah, I think it's a I I think it's a very tricky relationship. I think when a customer leaves, it's really hard. And I would encourage amateurs to be mindful of the fact that trainers are attached. I would also be encourage trainers to be mindful of the fact that they aren't our horses and we don't own our customers. Like this is a free market. You know, and I I know I think it's so hard for a lot of us to have that conversation. I know for me, I am like people don't believe me when I say this. I'm not confrontational. I don't like drama, I don't like conflict, like I'm not good at it because I want everybody happy. So I can see that about you. I don't so everybody's like, oh, you like drama. I'm like, no, I know, I know, I don't. I like other people's drama. Yeah, we're gonna dump this in, but I don't want to. I'll listen to the team. Yeah, I'm not in it. But it's you know, for me to have a hard conversation with somebody is like really hard for me. So if we get to that point, it's because it's really bad. And I probably should have done it months ago. You should do it sooner, right? I should have sooner. I think again, like I'm getting older now and I'm getting better at it, but as uh in my 30s, no pay. I would have just totally just stayed in an abusive relationship, so to speak. Sure. Well, also, like if you're friends with your trainer, that becomes a lot trickier to navigate because you're like, if I lose the professional relationship, do I lose the personal relationship? You do. You do you do, you do, which is unfortunate on both sides, actually.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:24

Um, but I don't know, I just don't know. I just don't know as a trainer that if you if you fire me when I know how much I try that I can maybe still be your friend. I would like to think over time that would be okay, but there's that's a very gray area that's tricky, and I don't think anybody likes that part. No, no. And that first time you see each other after the breakup, it's like so awkward. It's like, do we talk to you? Do we say hi? Do we look like a little awkward wave? You know it's really difficult. Yeah. But horse trainers also appreciate that, or the good ones should appreciate that that's difficult for you too. Oh, the worst. I'm sure it sucks. It's the worst. And then there's me. I'm like, can't we just we're gonna be okay, right? Like we're gonna be okay. Everyone's gonna be okay. Can we say hi? Let's go to dinner. Maybe not dinner. I'll say hi to you. We might not do dinner, but I'll say I'll say hi to you for sure. For sure. But I I do think it's really I do think it's really tricky. And I that's probably to me the hardest part about doing this professionally is that you become so close to your customers. I know, because you spend so much time together. So much time together. And then I had a few weeks ago at the we were at the Morgan convention, and somebody said, I just I refuse to be friends with my customers. And I was weird, we're on a table and I don't know that person particularly well. She's got a great business. She's like, I just refuse to be friends with my customers. And I have a young girl that's worked for me for eight years, and she's just recently gone out on her own. We opened a second location, and I'm trying my best to be so talented and hardworking. And she was like, Yeah, she's like, I don't know if I should be friends with my customers. And I was like, listen, I was like, this is a very lonely business. I said, I don't see my family on the holidays. I've not been to any of my brothers and sisters' weddings. I've missed my grandfather's funeral. I've I give up a lot to be able to do this. If I can't be friends with my customers, I am a lonely person. That's it. That's it. My customers have to be my friends because I give up everything personally to do this. So you have to be my friends. I have to like you guys. Like I have to like you guys. I want to go. We go on vacation almost exclusively with our customers because that's who we hang out with all the time. I know. Right. So I'm like, I guess you can be lonely or you can take the chance that your customers can be your friends and that you actually can genuinely care about each other, which I think is more, I think that's the case more often than not. You know, there's the outlier here and there where it falls apart and it goes bad. But I think by and large, customer trainer relationships probably do turn into friendships and more successfully than not, I would think. Yeah, I know. I'm at this like weird point where I want to keep everybody at an arm's length because I'm afraid to get hurt again. Sure. And I don't want to hurt anybody either. Sure. You know, I'm like, well, like, what if I want to make a change? And it's not because I want to hurt somebody, it's just because like I feel like I need to make a change. Like, I don't know, but I don't want to, I don't want to hurt anybody. So I I feel like right now I'm trying to keep everybody in arm's length. You're in a super tricky spot. I oh, I don't know. But then, you know, and I work currently with two different horse trainers, and everybody's like, how do you do that? Right. And I don't know. Um and I maybe I am a bad client because I'm like, well, I have one here and one here. And it's like, I think both of them are really good at different things. Sure. And I get an amazing amount of information from both of them, which is so cool. And I'm so lucky for that. And I'm I'm hopeful that both of them understand that. That it's not like I'm like it seems like they do. It does seem that way, but I've I've never been like, does this bother you? But it would take first of all, it would take a rare person and be like, Yeah, yeah, it does. Yeah, no, I don't, they're not gonna say yes to that. But no, I think you it seems like you balance it well. And I I try because I again, like everybody, you know, the whole industry, horses, you can learn something from everyone. 100%, right? So I think it's really neat that I get to learn from both of them, and then I bring it home and utilize it in in multiple multiple ways. So uh anyways, but it's it's worked well for me. I'm sure like some trainers wouldn't appreciate that. But I do I do think you're probably a very difficult customer. But I think we should call it, he won't answer. He does not answer the phone. He'll trick him into it. But I I think I would imagine you're also really rewarding in that you do put in the time. Yeah, you bought the right horse, you're invested in that horse, you're willing to do whatever you need to to be the best partner to that horse that's possible. That's a dream customer. And if I have to share you with somebody else, I'm fine with that. Yeah, that's cool. You're and I think you're really transparent about it. It's not like you're super honest. One week in there and another weekend here. Like you're very clear about it. Oh, yeah. Which is kind of all anybody could ask. When we were in at WEC over during the winter, we go for two weeks. Yes, O'Cala. And both of them were there. I didn't know who to go to dinner with. I was like, well, uh, like everybody's also if they both invited you to dinner, you're definitely a good customer. And I was like, I want to go see everybody. What do I do? You know, and I felt bad. Like I was like, okay, I'm cheating on this barn family today because I'm going with this barn family today. And like it was such like a weird thing for me. I was like, I I don't mean to not be with you guys tonight, you know. But it was like a weird, you know, I don't want things so funny. I don't want somebody to think I love them less because I didn't go to dinner with them that night, you know. Because it's I don't. But anyways, I will say, okay, so we did none of your questions. No, we didn't. Well, let me look at no, we didn't do any of them. We were just chatting. But this was great. I had a nice time.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:09

This was so good. Wait, I had like one more like funny. Wait. What is your most unhinged horse girl trait?

SPEAKER_02 1:45:30

I'm super obsessed with Seeger. It was not like disgusting. It was not cool. Like it was happening and I knew it wasn't cool. Yeah. Like I was so sure that that horse could win what I wanted to win that I decided it was a personal failing if we didn't. I was like, I know any other trainer that's good could take this horse and win that class, which is specifically what I wanted to win. And I was obsessed. I bought a book and I wrote down every day for three years what we worked, that how long, how many minutes we worked, what bit he wore, which direction we went first, how many laps I did, have I changed anything? It was like not four on the overcheck. We went, we did this time of day. And he, but then we went outside for this many laps. And he liked it because it was a sunny day or it was Thursday. It's like got bad. And like at some point along in the process, I would just like, I actually think like I'm not doing good anymore. I think this is actually a problem. It's actually a problem. Like, I've been writing in my diary for three years, and we still can't win anything. So maybe we should just let go of that. Stop writing. Just let go of that. Um, no, I was so fixated on that horse that yeah, I would think most would think that's problematic. That's crazy. Yeah, it was that's actually uh I'm impressed. I'm like I'm impressed. Not crazy. I actually don't think crazy bad. I think crazy good. It worked. Yeah, he won the class I wanted to win. So cool. And then some. He's just a phenomenal horse. But I did know he was capable. And I was like, you can't if you get a horse like that that can win it, and then he doesn't, it's definitely my fault. Yeah, and I just was not gonna let that horse down. You know, you know, he didn't have a book. Yeah, he takes care of it. He was like, Hey, yeah, five. Yeah, right. Oh, but yeah, that was definitely the most crazy I've ever been. Yeah, yeah, obsessed. Oh, a book just went right in my mouth. Gross. Um I'm trying to think, I'm trying to think what my like most unhinged. I mean, I do a lot of like weird shit, like weird sounds like you've got some odd routines. Yeah, like odd. Like, do you have like lucky socks or a thing that you have to do with the broom ahead of the class? Like, do you have like this? Yeah, I have a little Jesus I put in my bra. All right. That's well, and I just started the little Jesus in the bra thing because at the Congress this year, somebody was planting them all over the Congress. And I found one and it was like a little pink one. And you thought bra. Yeah, because I knew the close to your heart. Close to my heart, you know? So I was like, before I went in my Western riding class, I was like, I'm gonna just boop put this in my brain. And then you did good, and then I did well. Oh, well, there you go. The spirit was with you. He was. I don't even know. But I talk to Jesus every day, every time I ride a horse. Like, Jesus, just keep me safe. Keep me safe. Don't let me eat it. Have you had any bad crashes? Couple, yeah, couple, yeah. When's the last time you fell off? Oh, all right. So I about once a decade, I eat it hard. Oh, and it happened like two months ago. No, yeah, just lawn dart. What happened? I don't know, man. Like, usually, so this is the thing, I don't like to fall off. So I will grapple to the ground. Like when you know, you know how you know it's coming a little bit, and I'll just grab anything, and I'm like, I'll just I'll ride your neck before I'm gonna eat the dirt. So normally, if I quote fall off, it's a long time coming. Like there's a couple of laps involved. I'm under, I'm grabbing a dirt, I've got the tail. Like, whatever I do, because until I'm in the dirt, it doesn't count. So like it's fine as long as I don't actually fall off, it's fine. And girlfriend, when I mean to tell you, I did not see it coming. Did not see it coming. So, so fast, which is the best way I well, I mean, I have staff, but I was alone in the round pen. And she'd been cantering good, and I'm like, all right, I know she's tight to canter. I'm like, I think we got it. It's just so I stepped up, it's beautiful, we're cantering, head up, it's beautiful, it's not windy, the saddle's fine, she's not cold back, and I just like, you know what? Gonna let her have her head for a second. Bad, bad choice. That's the last thought I had. And then I was in the dirt facing her as she's jumping over me. I mean, she bucked me off so hard in one single bound. One single bound. I think I must have like flipped in the air and then because I landed on my back facing her, and then I saw her. Jump over me. Oh my gosh. And I was like, I think she just straight threw me. Well, she did. So was it. That was a couple months ago. First time in like a decade. Oh my gosh. It didn't hurt. No, I've got rubber footing. So it was fine. I was mad as hell though. Yeah. I was like, all right. And then I was like, I'm going to get a hard hat and a friend. Like, come hold this and get back on two hands again. I was like, I'm yelling, I'm like, Brooklyn, I need a hard hat and a rope and get down here. I was like, we're gonna do it again. If it starts coming on glue, you pull on it a little bit. And of course I got that. And then she, I don't think the horse actually knew what happened either. I think she was also surprised that it worked because she's like, I'm in like a lot of trouble, right? Yeah, you are. You're in so much trouble. And she's like, I will never do that again. Oh, that's good. She's fine, she was perfect. But that's it. Yeah. I so probably, well, I think it was like 2015. I had a young horse, was riding here by myself, and he tripped. And those are bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those are bad. And he the way he fell, he like rolled onto me, which I still was like, okay. And I tried to get out. Did you know what was happening? When it was happening? Yeah. So I was like trying to pull him up. He didn't. He went all the way down on his front end and he like rolled to the side. And my leg was stuck underneath him. When he stood up, my foot got stuck. Oh, that's it. That's the worst. That's the worst. My leg, I broke my leg. That's the worst. I remember thankfully, I had my phone in my pocket. So I called my mom and because I was alone. But I called she was up at the house and I called her and I'm like, You need to get down here. I'm like, I can't get up. Yeah, I did. And he's loose. And I'm like, then she comes down here and I was like, you gotta hold him because I'm getting back on. And she's like, Well, your leg is not functioning anymore. Or did you hate your head too? Because you are not getting back on this horse. And I was like, who just I was like, you get on. And she's like, I'm not. She's like, you definitely hit your head. I'm not getting on this horse. No. And then, but and I, it was bad too. I was like, oh, okay, this isn't fun. And then, so that was like whatever, 11-ish years ago. And then did that stick with you for a while? Oh, yeah. Every time they sneezed, I was like, Yep, I'm gonna fall. That's the when they go to their knees and fall because it is really slow motion and you can kind of see it happening and there's nothing to do. Oh, that's that's a bad ball. It was that's a bad ball. Yeah, that's a bad one. I like the ones where it's like that one where I'm just like, I'm on the ground now. I don't need I'm yeah, I don't know enough about what happened to be scared of it happening again. Right. I did another stupid one that was similar to yours, but I had a horse that he was so quiet, it was a really good boy, and it was in the winter, it was very cold out, and I decided I was gonna pony our pony off of him because I was like, well, everybody needs exercise and been outside. 201. So yeah, I'm like, this will be great. Again, alone. Okay. I was holding the pony, got on this horse. I no sooner put my leg to the other side. He broke into. I ended up behind the saddle. I didn't even I mean, I had no way I was like, what is happening? Like he had never bucked up. He had never kicked out nothing. I was like, what is happening? I'm still holding on to the pony. Well then the pony's also very confused. The pony's like, what's happening? The pony pulls out of my hands. Well, then he broke into again. He bucked me off of his ass. I landed flat on my back. And I remember laying there, and I'm like, You're breathing. Cool. When you're like, Yeah, like touched everything, and I'm like, You're okay, get up. And then I chased them around so hard, I was like, You're just gonna run. You're gonna be tired. You're gonna be tired. You might not be trained, but you're gonna be real tired. I was so mad. And then at that point, that was probably like three or four years ago, and I was like, I'm too old for this, and this hurts now. Like it hurts. Yes, I was very body sore after that. Yes, yeah, we're not supposed to be launched off of animals. No, no, I yeah, it does stick with you a little bit though, and it's harder to recover as you get older.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:51

Yeah, it's unfortunate. Yeah, it is. Ugh. But Zeus would never know.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:58

It's a good boy, actually doesn't have that much energy, even though he's bouncy, even though he's bouncy, he might accidentally like bounce off somebody. Yeah, you would just like does Della ride him? Yes. I love that. He's a dream boat for her. Love that easiest job ever. Thank you. She showed him for the first time under saddle a couple weeks ago. Really? How'd they do? They got a second under one chest. That's great. Yes, that was excellent. That's super. He's a lot of horse for her to put together, if that makes sense. Okay. Like she has to like use her legs and her hands to get him to do what he's really doing. Does he try for her? Yes. That's awesome. But he doesn't he's not exceptional for her. We'll say that. That's fine. He tries a little.

unknown 1:54:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:39

So I'm pretty sure passing grade is good enough for this one. Yeah, exactly. That's what he does. Not an A plus. No, he's like a B minus. It's like B minus perfect attendance. Yes. That's him. I'm into it. The announcer says walk. He's like, okay, we'll walk. How so is Della like super into it or like into it because you're into it? Like, have you gauged it yet? So she was not into it for a long time. I remember this, yes. And it that like burned me. Didn't love it. No. I didn't either. I was rooting for you. I was like, this child. Yeah, like come on, come to the barn. No, she'd rather sit in the house one day. You're a pretty girl, you got a cool name, pony up. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like she could have been this like crazy jumper kid. Now. Now she's not super brave. She is definitely a little timid of a rider. I she's had like a couple good falls, so she has a good reason to be timid. But she's getting there now where she's like, okay, this is fun. This is cool. I'm capable. Right. I think she's realized she's capable. Great. That's now we're like at the next level. She rides like three to four times a week. That's super. I think I don't think though, like when I was a kid, kids getting hurt was normal. Yeah. There was always somebody in class who had a cast. Right, true. Always, right? Whether it was like they like did the stupid thing on their BMX bike. True. Or, you know, ate it on the sled, like whatever it was. Somebody was always hurt. I don't think like kids get hurt, which probably makes you a great parent. But I do, I do think get on. You're fine. Yeah, you're fine. You're fine. But I do think like the risk aversion is an actual thing for kids now that it wasn't maybe when we were kids. Like, I think my mom sent like two of my brothers to school with a broken arm. She's like, I don't know, the school nurse will tell us. Yeah. It'll be fine. Yeah, it'll be fine. And that's not a thing anymore. Like, no, if you did it, they'd be like, you don't get to have kids at home. We're gonna take them away. They're not coming back home. I know it's definitely broken. Like, no. So yeah, so I do think there's a risk aversion now, which probably isn't super helpful to the horse sports. That's true. I would love for her to ride a saddlebrot or Morgan. Bring her up. We should do that. You have a connection. That would be really fun. I have a really cute one. He's like 142 and he's so he's really high-headed and he's cocky and he's cool.

unknown 1:56:52

That is cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:53

He's so fun. I mean, she jumps. And his bar name is Drama. Uh I think this sounds like a match made in heaven, as a matter of fact. Oh my gosh. He's got a great little girl. She'd definitely share him. Yeah. Bring her out. Oh, that would be so cool. We'll put her on. She'll have a blast. I think she would. She's like really good in Hunt Seat. She really likes Hunt Seat. She doesn't western, really. Like, she's not into the Western stuff. That's fine. She's got an English paper on way. We bought her this like really cool horse though to do the Western.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:19

And she's like, Can we put an English title on her? And I'm like, I mean, I guess we can.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:23

We can, but she still has a pony though. Well, the white one. No. She sells a white pony. He died. He died. Oh, well, they do that sometimes. That's a bummer, though. That's not good. Sorry, man. It's not good. He was only 17. That happens. Sorry. Yeah, it was not good. She oh, yeah. Tell your seven-year-old. Well, she was six at she just turned seven. Wife lessons. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, guy. She's got a bunch of songs on the radio, and she's like, no, turn it, change it. This reminds me of him.

unknown 1:57:53

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:54

It's good though to feel something at a young age. She totally does. I know. Well, and that honestly, she's learning something in life already. Yes. That a lot of kids don't learn. No. I I don't think you know you don't want kids to experience terrible heartbreak at a young age. But understanding loss at a young age, I think is valuable. I do too. It's better now than when she's like 16 and she's like, oh my God, the world is ending. Well, also, like you have to know that things are finite. Like relationships are finite, whether it's because they the pony passes away or the person moves out of town or your boyfriend breaks up with you. Like relationships are finite. Like the there's a podcast that I listened to, and he's like, every time a person, he's a divorce lawyer, is like every time somebody gets married, he's like, I tell them your marriage is gonna end one of two ways death or divorce. He's like, every relationship ends. I'm like, that's a hard truth. But it's true. Every relationship ends. It does. So, you know, better, I think, I'm sure was very sad, but if you understand loss, you understand the blessing of having having. You know what? We can end it on that. Because that was really nice, and that's really true. And that is such a way of thinking about having horses in our life. Yeah, just so lucky for any of the time that we have them. And everybody gets to have a horse in their life. Yeah. Everywhere eager. Yes, yes, have that. Thank you, Allie. This is so good. Excellent, thank you. We'll get to your questions in that way.